Wednesday, October 20, 2010

Why Diet , Nutrition and Masculinity Issues are Intrinsically Connected

The fairness of Men's role in society, men's behavior and characteristics that women find attractive, and diet and nutrition -- all three of these topics have been the subject of a considerable amount of propaganda, memes, lies, and shibboleths designed and promulgated by our mass media and educational institutions...all designed to mislead we the sheeple into behaving in ways that lead to tremendous profits for a wide variety of industries.

Our dysfunctional relationships, our nutrient poor diets and the ill mental, spiritual and physical health that results from them are literal niche markets that have proven to be very profitable indeed.

Many a men's right's blogger and commenter has made note of the efforts of Western society to emasculate and feminize society as a promote feminine behavior in men.

It just so happens that following the conventional dietary wisdom plays so perfectly into this agenda.

See, on a basic, physiological level, what is the primary difference in male and female biology? When you get right down to it, it's testosterone.

And the standard low-fat, no-red meat, low cholesterol, plant-based diet that we are all supposedly should be eating to have good health? It's a diet that is primarily instrumental in reducing the bodies production of testosterone.

Saturated fat, and cholesterol are primary building blocks for the bodies production of testosterone.

To put it simply, a low-fat diet, is a low-T diet.

Speaking for myself, It's been 4 years now since I've adopted a high-protein, high-fat diet - I like to call it a Nutrient Dense, Real Food diet, after nearly a decade of low-fat, non-fat, semi-vegetarian, whole grain diet, all through my 20's and early 30's. That diet saw me increasingly getting fatter (at my worst, I was 40 lbs. overweight), and in hindsight, I now realize I had a gradually decreasing libido.

Eating too many plant foods and not enough animal foods was turning me into an Herb.

After a few years of eating paleo, I've discovered that I now have a constant, raging libido of a caveman ready to club the nearest fertile female and drag her away for some carnal savagery. I haven't felt like this since I was 15 years old and first starting dating, and could think of nothing else but sex, drugs, sex, rock-n-roll, and sex. One thing about being older though, while my libido has been rejuvenated by my diet, you don't get the bothersome, can't-control effects like involuntary erections, like you do when you first pass through puberty.

But it turns out that testosterone is linked to far more than just your libido.

From the FuturePundit: Low Testosterone Increases Heart Death Risk?

Low testosterone levels seem to be linked to a heightened risk of premature death from heart disease and all causes, suggests research published online in Heart.

The finding refutes received wisdom that the hormone is a risk factor for cardiovascular disease.

Some researchers have already noted that obese men have low levels of testosterone and higher levels of estrogen.

That's becasue obese men eat too many carbs and not enough protein and fat...the high-T food.

After reading that Futurepundit post and the commentary, I googled "testosterone and saturated fat."

Here are some of the resulting articles I came up with...

From The Testosterone Diet

Quality fat will increase your low testosterone levels. When I say quality fat, I'm not talking about soy, corn, or cotton seed oils in a clear plastic bottles sitting on the grocery store shelf. As a matter of fact, I'm not talking about polyunsaturated oils at all.

Poly fats will reduce your testosterone levels!

I'm talking about mono fats from olives and avocados, and saturated fat from beef and egg yolks.

Yup, I'm talking old school bodybuilder food!

In his younger days, Jack Lalanne almost choked to death drinking cows blood. It coagulated in his throat on the way down, and just about sent him down the river.

Now, you don't need to take it that far, not even close. All I ask is that you start eating REAL food.

Need some examples?

Not real food..
Macaroni and cheese out of a box, pop tarts, frozen pizza.

Real food..

Eggs, steak, broccoli, avocados, almonds, salmon, olives, the list goes on and on...
That sounds positively paleo...

From How to Increase Testosterone

Tips to naturally increase testosterone levels

The following are tips for how to increase testosterone naturally.

  • Testosterone levels decrease with restricted diets but are restored within 48 hours after eating normal again.
  • Diets high in protein, cholesterol, fat, and saturated fat will increase testosterone levels.
  • Increasing polyunsaturated fat and decreasing saturated fat will decrease testosterone levels.
  • Consistent and heavy weight training with compound exercises and short rest intervals is a huge contributor to stimulating higher than normal testosterone levels.
  • Sex, masturbation, or an erotic stimulus will cause an increase in testosterone levels.
  • Compounded medications such as BHRT testosterone can help increase testosterone levels.
  • Painkillers such as aspirin, marijuana, and codeine will decrease levels of testosterone.
  • Higher protein typically equals more animal fats therefore you'll likely be getting more saturated fat and cholesterol by consuming more protein.
  • Alcohol decreases testosterone levels. Even just one night out on the town can cause testosterone levels to drop significantly.
  • Runners and power lifters show lower levels of testosterone than bodybuilders do.
  • Stress also significantly affects your testosterone. The higher your stress level the lower your testosterone levels.

Note that the entire low-fat/non-fat, avoid saturated fat conventional wisdom also makes people use more polyunsaturated fats like canola, corn, and soy oils, and eat a lot less saturated fats like butter, lard and tallow.

Be a FAT!

From Old School BodyBuilders: Testosterone and Saturated Fat:

Men like Armand Tanny, John Grimek, and Vince Gironda.

These pioneers of the muscle game didn't keep a bottle of testosterone cypionate in the medicine cabinet.

They didn't rely on fractioned, low-fat, over-processed foods either.

Vince shunned the primitive soy-based protein powders of the day, and got his aminos the way mother nature intended....From food!

He believed a large percentage of your daily food intake should be consumed in a raw, natural state.

His go-to guys were steak tartar, whole eggs, and raw milk.

Yup, Vince, John, Armand, and most of the other muscle men of that era ate what I like to call "man food."

Food that real men consumed, before fat phobia took over our collective conscious in the late 70s and early 80s.

As a matter of fact, these men embraced fat, from clean, animal-based sources, and for good reason.

For one, fat is good for you!

Surprised?  More on that later…

Second, fat, especially saturated fat, is vital for optimal Testosterone Production.
Studies have shown conclusively, that male vegetarians, who typically consume very little saturated fat, have considerably lower levels of testosterone compared to non vegetarians.

In 2005 JS Volek conducted a study titled, The case for not restricting saturated fat on a low carbohydrate diet.

This research compared the dietary records of several men involved in weight training.

The authors found significant correlations between testosterone levels and total and saturated fat intake among men with a history of at least one year of weight training.

Testosterone is the key hormone that defines your masculinity. The fats and proteins that you eat (or don't eat) will determine the levels of testosterone your body produces.

No wonder the same corporate mass media that constantly seeks to emasculate the Western Male by degrading masculinity, and constantly portraying male role models as weak, effeminate, pussy whipped and dominated by women is the same entities promoting a low-fat, plant based (i.e. polyunsaturated fat) diet as optimal!

Time to cue up the shaming language...

Now do you want to eat like an herb, or eat like a MAN?


IndoMRA said...

I have to disagree with some of this. As you know I am from India. India is world-reknowned for our delicious cuisine, primarily vegetarian.

I have noticed that what passes for "masculinity" in the US is what most cultured Indians and other South Asians would deem low class behaviour, forgive me for being so blunt.

That meat is considered "man food" here and vegetarianism is considered "feminine" is something that struck me as odd - coming from a land where probably 50% of the population is vegetarian.

Moreover our male dominated fields of yoga and astrology are also considered "female pursuits" in the United States, something else I found to be odd.

So you see, there is a hugh cultural factor as to what is considered "masculine" and "feminine" around the world.

Generally speaking in India, unless one is a professional athelete, a soldier in the military, or in some other such position that requires more testosterone than one naturally produces, we Indian men would not go out of our way to gain testosterone and we certainly would not take to meat eating to do so.

There simply is no reason for us to covet an over-abundance of testosterone. We are a spiritual people and too much testosterone can give rise to anger issues as well as becoming overly stimulated sexually, both of which can be a hindrance to the Dharmic (religious and dutiful) lifestyle we are encouraged by our ancestors, culture and family to pursue.

I, as well as my entire family for generations, was raised as a lacto-vegetarian.

We eat plenty of milk products along with our veggies, fruits and grains and we are healthy.

Now, with the introduction of processed foods from the West, we are suffering from diabetes and obesity, however the traditional lacto-vegetarian diet that my grandparents and parents grew up on was very healthy.

After coming to the US and getting in the habit of eating tofu and other heavily processed vegetarian foods I have experienced a decline in health but am proud to report that I have been turned on to the benefits of a mostly living and raw food lifestyle.

I do a lot of sprouting of pulses. In India we have hundreds of pulses which provide protein to us vegetarians and for which we have created thousands of delicious recipes. I have discovered the benefit of sprouting them in the West, though in India we also sprout them on occasion.

So between sprouting and eating dark leafy greens as well as daily intake of marine phyto planktons, my health has sky rocketed.

For grains I stick with quinoa (not really a grain at all), and I also sprout that.

Sometimes I do wild or brown rice, and of course amaranth.

I have lessened my milk intake in the US because in India I was used to getting fresh milk in the morning from the neighbors cow. Nothing can compare to that or the butter and yogurt that can be made from that.

I'm contemplating becoming a vegan for ethical reasons so I guess you could say I want to eat like an herb AND a man, because in my culture, what you consider "herb" is in fact "man".

Keoni Galt said...

Well Indo - 1st of all, I have to take issue with your statement: "There simply is no reason for us to covet an over-abundance of testosterone. We are a spiritual people and too much testosterone can give rise to anger issues as well as becoming overly stimulated sexually..."

I realize you have a cultural tradition, and believe me, I respect that...

...but the whole negative association with testosterone is one the feminist's favorite memes.

"There's too much testosterone in the room...blah, blah, blah."

It's bullshit.

Testosterone is vital to health. It's the primary driver of masculine behavior and achievement.

To denigrate testosterone, is to denigrate the very essence of your being.

That being each his own.

I was only exhorting people to "MAN UP" as a sort of facetious joke, since much of the MRA blogosphere has devoted many a word on shaming language.

Note that I never said an Herb is NOT a man. Just a more passive, less assertive man.

In India, such a man may in fact be revered and respected.

Not here.

chris said...

Indians have all of the Metabolic Syndrome X disease that comes from eating low fat/ whole grain.

The human animal thrives on high fat / no grain.

IndoMRA said...

Keoni, I wasn't denigrating testosterone. Just acknowledging that an over-abundance of it can lead to aggression and too much sexual stimulation. Neither of those are a good thing.

Assertiveness - yes.
Agression - no.

Moderate sexual stimulation - yes.
Over sexual stimulation - no.

In my culture people who are focused on spiritual pursuits will limit protein intake because it is linked with testosterone increase.

Similarly too much estrogen may also have detrimental effects.

But naturally occurring testosterone and estrogen levels are generally healthy - in both men and women.

The key here is balance.

I find American culture very imbalanced.

Just look at the photo you chose to post. That man does not look healthy, happy or balanced.

In fact, he's a good example of the aggression that results from too much testosterone.

The look on his face and his body language says it all.

That's not someone I would want to emulate, nor do I need to. Not even to attract Western women.

I've never had a problem attracting wonderful women here in the States.

In fact, I prefer them to women in India for various reasons. One of them being that I find American women much more understanding and accomdating than Indian women.

Anonymous said...

IndoMRA has a point. The man in the photo is not happy healthy or balanced because he is using a homosexual standard of masculinity. No heterosexual man should follow a homosexual standard of manhood.

IndoMRA said...

I think I know what Anonymous is getting at, Deansdale.

Let's take Fraternities, for example. They are homosocial environments. In the beginning of their creation they housed a significant number of gay college men at a time when homosexuality was a huge taboo. As a dating culture grew on college campuses and as Fraternities became the center of a dating culture, it became increasingly important for the heterosexual Fraternity men to "proove" and visibly demonstrate masculinity, as well as for the gay men amongst them to
to hide their homosexuality and demonstrate a faux heterosexuality as well.

Hence the developement of a hyper-masculinity that Frats are famous for even today.

Similarly, although the man in this photo may not be gay or even threatened by others mistakenly perceiving him as such, it may be that many men who put as much effort into their bodies as he does, do so to demonstrate hyper-masculinity out of insecurity or as a cover up for homosocial or homosexual tendencies.

Indian culture is still largely homosocial. Very homosocial in fact, yet we don't have a compulsion to compensate for that by trying to appear hyper-masculine or uber-hetero in other areas. That's because homosocial behaviour is considered normal in our gender segregated social arenas.

For me, this obsession with the body or obsession with being "manly" that I have come across since coming to the US is a curious oddity to me.

In India, manhood is not questioned like it is here.

In India, if you have a penis, you are masculine.

Default User said...

I agree that many unfairly denigrated and incorrectly fear testosterone (perhaps it is really masculinity they worry about). However, I am less sure about its effects on aggression and sex drive.

A while ago, I had my T levels tested; they were at the very high end. They were at the high end for even a twenty-something and not the forty something that I am.

Sadly, I have received none of the sex drive, extroverting, and competitive results you have. I really doubt the cure-all expectations that many have for testosterone. On the other hand I do believe that I receive the anabolic and other healthful effects of testosterone.

Some studies show that testosterone does not cause aggressive behavior but may rise in response to it (or the threat of it). Another study showed that females who thought they received testosterone acted in stereotypical manner. Those who actually had received testosterone acted in a more fair and cooperative manner.

Lest you thing I am down on testosterone, let me assure you I am not. I just wish it had all the wonderful effects alleged for it.

Way off topic but, do you think that the pushing of all of those reality style shows are way to get us used to a surveillance society? An article [] at Taki's, while not explicitly making that point, started me thinking in that direction.

Anonymous said...

IndoMRA strikes me as a manifestation of the Indian ideal, or at least what he perceives as the Indian ideal. Low-T, high cortisol and DHT have led to no muscle tone and a heavy belly that's tight like drum from all the visceral fat and clogged arteries. His shoulders are likely smaller than his waist, a characteristic he shares with obese men in the US, despite only being slightly overweight.

How do I know all this? My father is the same way, and he is Indian too. I have pointed him to some TRT resources and he reacts the same way as IndoMRA. Suit yourself, I said.

Yoga is a very feminine pursuit and Indian men love it because they have very small balls which don't get in the way of the contortionist poses.

There's nothing manly about not being able to bench the bar.

RoonyRoo said...

IndoMRA also forgets to mention India has some of the poorest health & muscular under development, exactly as a result of his wonder vegetarian diet ...

Look at any indian photo & you can see the hyper under developed muscular & bloat, skinny chumps due to the excess fermented crap due to excess fibre & plants rotting in the gut & low amounts of nutrition compared to a meat diet, all typical of a oestrogen producing crappy vegetarian diet

In fact india leads the world in various diseases related to vegetarianism

IurnMan83 said...

I have to say when this whole flip on nutritional science was first presented to me, I was a bit skeptical. I've been overweight most of my life and have always tried losing weight in one form or fashion. My biggest problem was I was a junk-food junkie who always wanted donuts and cakes, sodas and syrups. And of course (un)healthy doses of white bread.

So, a couple months ago I decided to take a step. I cannot directly eat the rendered body fat of animals (it's a kosher thing) but I cut out all of the conventional oils from my diet and started cooking with pure olive oil and butter. I also focused more on protien intake, mostly from meat, and started eating leafy greens. I have and still fall back on sugary processed food from years of habit, but for the most part have stuck to a mostly protien based diet.

I can say it's changed a lot about me. I've lost a jean size and 20 lbs in the last month, which for me is a LOT of freaking weight. Just today I put on my usual pair of work jeans and had to use a belt for the first time in a while because they were too loose. I feel better, sleep less, and my testosterone has definately increased. From this point on, I'm not looking back. I can eat foods I enjoy and occasionally have the rare treat, but there's something to be said about a "men's diet" that perhaps needs to be stated more often. Thanks HL for posting about these things and educating this fat boy on how things are.


RoonyRoo said...

Lurnman83 you should avoid most vegetable oils, as they all have low boiling points, meaning they turn rancid & rot, when heated

Creating massive amounts of carcinogens & oxidises the oil, whenever you eat oxidised oil you eat massive amounts of oxidants which uses up your bodies stores of antioxidants to combat the oxidised & rancid oil

If you want to use a safe vegetable oil research high boiling point oils, a good safe low carcinogenic oil is coconut oil

Fried eggs taste incredible with coconut oil, so much better then normal vegetable oils

Anonymous said...

A year ago, my DIL bought me a book, EAT FAT LOSE FAT. One of the authors some years ago did a study and discovered that a diet based on saturated fats, such as coconut oil or real lard, produced fewer repeat heart attacks, than a diet of vegetable oils. She was threatened with loss of research funds if she didn't withdraw her paper. She issued the paper and got funds elsewhere.

She says coconut oil makes half the calories on a certain Pacific Island, and heart attacks are unknown there.

In the US, I buy coconut oil. Here in Mexico, I use real lard. Nothing tastes as good as an egg fried in lard, and eat the hot lard with the egg, not even coconut oil -- which is pretty good, too.

Anonymous age 68

Gunn said...

IndoMRA is a fool. India is one of the most (stable) feminised countries on the planet. Whilst they don't have the strident feminism of the west, they have an ingrained cultural bias toward feminism that probably made them vulnerable to invasion over the last couple of millenia.

Indian men are generally small and weak. A 14 year old boy from the west (12 if he's black) could easily overpower the average indian man. Hell, I recall reading that an indian actor (one of the few categories of indian men that actually bother to build muscle) was on a tour to an army camp, and he *beat up* about 6 trained indian commandoes in a demonstration exercise. Thats just wrong.

In the west, indians are known to suffer huge problems with metabolic syndrome, and I suspect this is largely due to the lacto-vegetarian diet which is made even worse in the west because they don't use the proper fats like ghee anymore, but switch to shit like margerine.

Indian culture's feminism can also be seen in the way arranged marriages work. In most cases, the woman is within 2-4 years of the age of the man. This is a clear demonstration of the feminised cultural influences. Also, in Indian culture, women have pretty much all the power in a domestic situation.

Any man of indian origin growing up in the west should switch to a meat based diet and cultivate a strong physique through proper exercise. To fall back on shit like 'yoga' or 'astrology' is just sad.

BTW, yoga originally was not the pansified shit you see it as nowadays. Originally, yoga was a way of maintaining physical health cultivated by the warrior caste of india. Today its become a nonsense of female friendly crap and psycho-mumbo-jumbo promoted by charlatans out for the quick buck.

mnl said...

IndoMRA said... "an over-abundance of it [testosterone] can lead to aggression..."

That too is something about testosterone that gets told and re-told in our modern press until it's become almost taken for granted. But the fact is, try as they might, researchers have been unable to find a firm aggression-testosterone link for T levels at normal or slightly above normal levels. I suspect the "roid rage" expression has come about either because it's 1) a convenient alliteration as part of a pro-feminine agenda; 2) it might be the case that inherently aggressive males have indeed sought out androgens (but not the other way around); or 3) it's also possible that inordinately large amounts of androgens *could* cause aggression--but these would need to be levels far in excess of what any controlled study would permit or has explored. I doubt any guy reading this blog and seeking to boost his testosterone levels to near-normal levels (or even at levels found at the high end for men in their teens or 20's) would come close to experiencing these mythical effects. I certainly haven't.

Interesting tid-bit: In DAWN’s Detailed Emergency Department Tables for 2002, androgens squeaked their way into the top-150 drugs listed. (That's "listed" as part of a visit.) They came in at 142nd place. By contrast, emergency room listings for problems associated with simple aspirin were 25 times more frequent.

In fact, one recent study not only summarizes the folklore, but shows that greater testosterone leads to an increase desire for fairplay in social interaction: And that's not to mention any of Keoni's comments/links that show testosterone associated with lower heart risk and greater well-being:

I recommend any guy wondering about his testosterone levels to get tested. Low testosterone is a common malady. Levels have been declining over time such that men today have a fraction of the T that their grandfathers had--when at the same age. And if Keoni's suggestions on diet and lifestyle don't do the trick, hormone/testosterone replacement for men is definitely something to look into. Ask your GP or, even better, seek-out a qualified endocrinologist. It's simple, cheap, and can make a world of difference in both your mental and physical health.

IndoMRA said...

1. Indian men and their round belly fat.

I agree. Especially amongst those of us who come to the US and adapt to a dysfuctional culture and SAD (Standard American Diet). We work in sedentary jobs and don't have a fitness culture.

However in India amongst the millions of men and women who do physical labor for their living: the farm and field workers, the constructions workers (women are construction workers in India), the rikshaw wallas and the domestic help - these people are swelte and muscular. Plus they eat healthier than the wealthy Indians who are pigging out on white rice, white sugar, heavily fried foods and other imported junk.

2. Coconut Oil.

YES. One of the reasons South Indians are so healthy. It has been a staple for thousands of years.

The North uses mustard oil and ghee.

3. Meat eating.

I'll never do it because it is against both my religion and my personal ethics.

The traditional Indian diet is healthy. What Indians are eating in the West is not, and what "modern" west-following Indians are eating in India also is not. The traditional Indian diet is composed of thousands of different very healthy items. We don't buy processed white flour, we grind our own wheat daily, etc. Protein rich legumes, lentils and pulses are also a major part of the Indian diet.

4. Yoga.

Was not created by and for warriors. But warriors always practiced it. Yoga is not physical exercise. Physical exercise is just one part of yoga. Yoga is a process for self-actualization and God-realization.

5. Bench pressing.

Nothing against it. I had a gym membership once and worked out daily but am currently doing my daily yoga practice with martial arts and swimming and I'm in the best shape ever.

The gym atmosphere is not conducive for mindfulness with all the blaring music and one-upmanship between men. Plus, I was sick of getting hit on in the locker room by white guys with a brown fetish.

I prefer to be able to take my gym with me. That's why I use my own body for weight resistence. My gym is my own body!

We Indians are nothing if not self-reliant.

One reason why the ladies like us, or at least me ;)

6. Regarding Indian arranged marriage and women have all the domestic control. Not really. We live in a joint family system where non of the sons leave home but bring their wives to live with us in our parents home. The newly married brides are literally servants of everyone in the house. A wife only gaines power when her in-laws die, her sons grow up and get married and she can then exert control over HER daughters in law.

India still has a long way to go in terms of womens rights, mens rights, childrens rights and human rights in general.

Anonymous said...


The biggest killer of testosterone is too much ejaculation. Abstain for two weeks and you'll have more testosterone than most men.

IndoMRA said...

Interesting that you say that Samvel. You might know that in YOGA the retention of semen is recommended. It is believed that semen is nutrient rich and the preservation of it invigorates and energizes the body and mind.

Yogis are advised to practice celibacy. Married Yogis are advised to have sexual intercourse in a regulated and moderate fashion.

Anonymous said...


Thanks for the reply. :)

Before I began doing it, I read some Taoist literature that recommended abstaining but I never took it seriously.

Then I discovered a forum thread in which hundreds of guys were participating in a no masturbation race and the majority of them testified to great results.

I decided to try it. It has transformed my life. I now have more confidence, charisma, and drive to be productive than I ever thought possible.

Anonymous said...

Keoni, while usually I find myself agreeing with your insightful posts, on this one I take issue.

My observation has been that nutrition is a highly individualized item. Factors such as genetics , family lineage etc control what foods are effective or detrimental to each individual.

For example, my grandfathers side came from a Eastern European prairie area. I find grains, nuts, and vegetables work very well in my diet. My brother is almost a total meat eater and I don't at all. I am healthy and am constantly told how I look 15 years younger than I am .. and he .. well he's just old and worn out.

That's not to say meat eating isn't effective for some. But I think experimentation to custom tailor each mans diet is the way to go.

PS. Hugely important are the very advanced nutritional supplemenents and proteins , etc that EVERY guy should be utilizing.

Anonymous said...

I agree with the advise regarding food, paleo-diets really makes one leaner and stronger.

Keoni, where did you find that powerlifting results in less T than bodybuilding?

Samvel I guess you are refering to the Mega thread over at the don juan forum ?

I have tried the same, stopping mb for 2 weeks really grows your beard so to speak.


Anonymous said...

Great post Dave. Lets move on from the bullshit about Indian men and gays and get back to the topic at hand.

Why do you think power lifters have lower T than bodybuilders? And how much lower is a power lifters T levels?

Lower than other athletes, lower than normal?

Also, you forgot the easiest way to improve your T levels:

1. Eat lots of steak.

- Breeze

Mani said...

Ejaculation doesn't lead to lower testosterone levels. It leads to lower energy levels through the release of sexual energy. Some people do the no masturbation thing and think it's their T levels going up, but it's simply allowing for a build up of sexual energy.

Testosterone levels actually increase with ejaculation, not strictly after ejaculation, but after a recovery period to higher levels then before ejaculation occurred.

There's a reason why most monks don't have sex or eat meat. The more they indulge, the higher their testosterone, the harder it is for them to resist temptation.

Regular sex has proven to increase testosterone as well as other numerous health benefits. Excessive masturbation does not show all the same benefits, so there is a difference between the two.

And as someone who's been to India, most Indians are incredibly unhealthy. The signs just don't show themselves until middle age. However many of the farmers I stayed with were pretty strong, and would likely out work any one who grew up in the west.

IndoMRA said...

"And as someone who's been to India, most Indians are incredibly unhealthy. The signs just don't show themselves until middle age. However many of the farmers I stayed with were pretty strong, and would likely out work any one who grew up in the west."

I made the same point. People who are living a more "traditional" Indian way of life are healthier than those who are not.

Globalization has benefitted the Earth's inhabitants in some ways, and in some ways it is ruining us.

Anonymous said...


Yes that is the thread. :)


I too used to believe that masturbation doesn't harm my testosterone. All these scientists tell us everyday about the benefits of masturbation.

But I was wrong. And everyone who believes masturbation doesn't harm testosterone is wrong. On the linked forum hundreds of guys testify to this.

When real life experience proves scientists wrong, who is wrong? Life is wrong?

Masturbating to get testosterone is like burning dollar bills for heat to save money on electricity. You get a short term boost, but you end up with less testosterone.

No studies that I know of have studied the effects of abstaining for a month or more.

I'm not saying don't have sex. I have all sex I want, but I don't finish it off with ejaculation.

I've made some interesting connections between zinc, testosterone and ejaculation. Scientists have proven that zinc supplementation can easily double a man's testosterone. It is also known that red meat with its high zinc content increases testosterone. It is also known that with each ejaculation man loses zinc.

This is where the testosterone-enhancing effects of abstaining come from. When you don't ejaculate you save zinc. The increased zinc in your body causes you to increase testosterone production.

Therefore the best plan for increasing testosterone is abstaining from ejaculation [not sex or porn, just the ejaculation part], eating more meat, and zinc supplementation. Any man who has trouble gaining muscle can try this.

Anonymous said...

@blog author:

According to your diet suggestion: Could you please itemize for 2-3 days what you eat daily when and how you prepare these foods/drinks? Cheers!

Anonymous said...

I think some red meat and fats are good in moderation, but going gung-ho on them is going to cause trouble. And eliminating grains if you want to build muscle is going to be counterproductive. Muscle is made mostly of glycogen which is built using protein, water and carbohydrates. You need the carbs that grains and starches provide to build muscle. Green vegetables are mostly fibrous carbs, low in calories and pass through the system, they don't help to build muscle.

If you don't believe this you can try going on a ketogenic diet, which means eliminating starches and grains altogether and replacing them with protein and fats. Some bodybuilders do this when trying to cut weight. It works because starches and grains are mostly high in calories (although they are also high in nutrients), and it becomes easier to enter a calorie deficit when you eliminate them. To compensate for the lack of sugar when on this diet the body produces ketones to keep the brain functioning. The problem with this diet is that if you eliminate carbs, the body will not retain as much water. You can lose as much as ten pounds of water weight in a few days on a ketogenic diet but you end up looking flat and emaciated because of it.

The proper diet is not paleo, low-fat, atkins, or any of the other short term fad diets that the various industries are trying to sell us. Just eat good natural food that is high in nutrients in moderate amounts. You can eat a cup of rice and a chicken breast for about the same calorie intake as two chocolate chip cookies, which one do you think is going to be better for you?

For more info there is an excellent podcast at

gallier2 said...

Anonymous, you're full of it.

Muscle is made mostly of glycogen which is built using protein, water and carbohydrate

This is patently false, muscle is protein. Glycogen is short term fuel for the muscle. Most glycogen is stored in the liver, which is not a muscle. Glycogen is nothing more than a starch, i.e. a glucose polymer, used as short term storage of glucose. The body needs some glucose for fast access energy (when fleeing from predator for instance) because the conversion reaction of free fatty acids are comparativly slow.
It takes 16 water molecules to store one glucose molecule in glycogen, this explains why a lot of water is lost on high intensive sport events or on a low-carb diet (at the beginning).

Here a link where you can learn what builds muscle

Kamal S. said...

Indo dude;

I honestly think you may be unconsciously exaggerating some things about your culture, or conflating specific classes and religious groups in your culture with a larger group.

I don't buy the line that Indians are a very spiritual culture because they only eat veggies, and thus look down on boorish American ideas of masculinity.

First, because there are cultures in the Indic world that are very virile and hyper-masculine by the standards you are talking about.

It is true that the sort of expressions of masculinity we Americans presume for ourselves are often seen as boorish and low class in many cultures, part of this is because of the constant media attack against masculinity, basically forcing masculine expressions into coarse expressions.

Since the idea of a gentleman's masculinity has been undermined in the media and our culture the last refuge of masculinity is the garage, bar, and football field. I think that's a bad thing, but it's what we have because everything else has been stripped away.

2. A mostly vegetarian society is perfect if one wishes a placid and easily controlled hierarchical society - draw your own conclusions from that. But there is a reason that everyone from Turkis, Pathans, Moguls, Britishers, and sundry people in between have waltzed through substantial parts of India.

India faced a similar situation as Egypt once did - over-civilization to the point of effeteness (on Egypt the Ottomans at one point gave up drafting egyptians because they made the worst soldier material, that's why they imported Albanians, Circassians, and raided Nubia and Sudan for soldier material, a population overly civilized for 4000 years tends to make piss poor solder material)

That all said, I've never been to India, but my Dad did live there for a time, and I grew up around, went to school with, and knew, hundreds of Desis, both Indian and Pakistani. I observed some things, and among them is that certain ethnic groups seemed extremely masculine and high in testosterone. They also ate a lot of meat.

As for testosterone, I've hung out around Sikh and Muslim Punjabis and these guys honestly often reek of testosterone.

In phenotype you can see it in their faces, build, body hair, etc., many of them gravitate towards weight lifting and wrestling.

Men of Rajasthani extraction also often seem to have hyper testosterone.

Pashtuns seem to bathe in it.

Meat eating is not uncommon in any of these areas. Guys from these regions, from what I understand, are also known for their sex drive.

There is a such thing as a virile, noble, heroic, non-boorish, non-low class, high testosterone masculinity

Kamal S. said...

Deadlifting increases testosterone production but my back can't take it.

Onions; there is a Turkish Study and an Iranian study showing raw onions encourage serum testosterone in Lab Rats. It also increased their testes size.

They haven't tried it in humans. The mechanism is suspected to have something to do with anti-oxidants inhibiting free radical damage. Google it up, it is interesting.

It seems rather random that both studies would be done in the middle east, but I suspect the reason they decided on the research was due to some folk stuff floating around in their culture.

Onions, as well as Almonds, Walnuts, and Eggs, are traditional and folk medicine cures for erectile dysfunction and virility issues in those cultures. I'm sure some lab tech was thinking over his grandpa's advice and just went "Hmmm... let's get a bunch of rats together..."

What does this stuff have in common? For eggs and nuts Protein, and good fats. And in the case of onions lots of antioxidants.

I second the masturbation thing, not to get vulgar guys but if you wank don't blow. Sure be a sceptic all you want, but at least give it a try. Go a substantial amount of time either avoiding masturbating as long as humanly possible, or if you do train your will power to stop short of the main event.

If you can't do this then don't bother posting back that this is full of crap, do the work, observe the results, then come back.

It may make the quality of your life much better than you could imagine...

Aboutlifting said...

One of the best of keoni!!