Monday, November 7, 2011

Got Game?

Well, it looks like the "Great Game Debate" has wrapped up over at A Voice for Men. Rather than weigh in on the various points and counter-points made, and throw in my own opinion on who I think "won," I think I'll take a different approach, and go over my initial introduction to "GAME" on teh interwebz.

Fair Warning - this one's gonna be long.

My entire support of this thing referred to as "game" has never been about "teaching guys to get laid" or how to "pick up chicks." I support the continuous, ongoing discussions of this topic, because it does help many men open their eyes to the realities of how the human mating game works.

Before the advent of our current Brave New World Order, much of what is considered "GAME" was simply advice older men gave to younger men who reached the age where they found themselves suddenly attracted to members of the opposite sex.

Thanks to a generation shaped by sexual revolution, re-defined gender roles, and the pervasive influence of a mass media culture, many males are left clueless about how women think, how women's sexuality works, and even what masculinity is.

For some, discovering these online discussions in forums and blogs regarding "Game," they usually have a moment of clarity. The proverbial light bulb that goes off. Understanding and awareness dawn on the formerly befuddled mind.

Suddenly, given the insights gained from studying this theory, many men realize how and why events and relationships in their pasts turned out the way they did, where they went right, and in most importantly, where they went wrong.

One of the first online sources that I encountered Game theory, was the articles written by an author and shooting instructor by the name of John Ross. I found his online archives (that covered a whole range of topics) about the same time I found several obscure "PUA" blogs that discussed this thing called Game. I immediately saw the connection of what Ross was discussing in his articles and what the PUA bloggers like "The Reality Method" were talking about. This was around 2007, a good year before I ever even heard of Roissy in D.C.

Ross was never a self-proclaimed "guru" or "pickup artist." Just a real guy, who had a Father who steered him in the right direction when he was a teen. He was essentially a "natural." In none of his writings did he write the word "game" or "pickup artist" or any of the other lingo many of us are all familiar with now. But everything he wrote about was describing the use of "Game theory" applied in real life.

His first article in which he addressed the topic, was based on some advice he was trying to give to a young man in an online forum for gun shooting enthusiasts. The young man had met an attractive girl he wanted to ask her out on a date to take her the shooting range, and he was asking for advice from the forum members on how to go about it. Ross weighed in with his advice, playing the role of advice columnist, in a piece entitled: Women, Teasing, Tests, One-itis, and Hope

Keep in mind, he wrote this in 2003.

If this really is "the girl of your dreams" I have a few suggestions that don't have to do with what guns to bring, as others have given you good input on that score.

1. Maintain an air of quiet competence. People in general dislike motormouthed know-it-alls but are impressed when they see knowledge and skill at work. This is doubly true when the activity in question has the potential for danger if safety concerns are ignored.

Explain, don't lecture, and early on say something like "If I see you doing something dangerous I'm going to stop you immediately. You probably won't, but I'm telling you this now so you won't get upset if I raise my voice. I don't much care about your marksmanship today but I care a great deal about safe gun handling."

Inner game. Confidence. Dominance. Taking the lead. Demonstrating Higher Value.

2. Do not fawn over her. Pretty girls get this so much they lose all interest in the guys who kiss up to them. New mindset: You are LETTING HER join you in something exciting. I hope the invitation was "I'm going shooting this weekend--it's going to be perfect weather and there's a great range I use. If you'd like to join me I'll pick you up at 8:30, if you've got something to wear that you won't cry about if it gets a little dirt on it" (said with a grin.)

The concept of establishing frame. YOUR frame. Note his advice using a "neg," said with a grin. Cocky humor showing confidence and putting her in the position to qualify herself to you - if she's interested, she'll want to let you know that she's not like all the other girls that would "cry" if they got their clothes dirty.

When she said "yes," I hope you added "I'm assuming you're not one of those flaky women who thinks 8:30 means 'sometime before noon.' I intend to be at the range by 9:00."

More dominance. Reinforcing his frame. Showing leadership, and letting her know he has standards.

3. Pack up and quit shooting while she's still having a good time. Do not wait until her shoulder or hand hurts or she's tired.

4. After shooting, do not make plans right away to do something else next weekend, no matter how well you think things went. I cannot stress this strongly enough: DO NOT SELL TOO FAR IN ADVANCE. Not even if she rips your clothes off on the ride home. End your first date with her while she's still wanting more, and don't be too eager to plan the next one. This holds for future dates as well. And don't think of them as "dates," think of them as "I'm doing this and I'll let you join me if you behave." New mindset: Welcome to MY world.

Is this being "manipulative" or "putting up a false front" or "supplicating" and being a "pussy beggar?" Nope. All of this advice from Ross essentially boils down to a man developing skills and confidence - aka "inner game." None of this advice is based on trying to be something that your not to manipulate a woman into dropping her panties because you pulled a fast one on her. It's about displaying masculine confidence, assurance and social dominance.

5. Be prepared for a test. (Men call this a "shit test," which is a more accurate term, but from now on I’ll avoid the vulgarism for the sake of Internet decorum.) You may get such a test before you pick her up for the date, a phone call at the last minute telling you her best friend just broke up with her boyfriend and needs consoling, so she has to cancel. It may be an attempt to get you to do something different than what you planned. Do not accept this. Call her on any attempt to change plans. Make it clear such behavior is unacceptable. Be ready to say "Next."

Man. Too bad John Ross has a day job as a shooting instructor. He could make a fortune holding workshops or selling DVD's to gullible, hapless guys desperate to get laid.

Pretty girls have a different reality than you or I have. Their reality is that men almost always do whatever they demand. Believe it or not, the women are tired of this. The "test" is a way to cull out the mediocre males and find the ones with backbone. It's instinctive for women, because it works so immediately and so well. When you pass one test, you will get another, sometimes right away, sometimes later. This usually goes on as long as you remain involved with a woman, but as you keep passing her tests, they become less and less frequent. Be aware of this, and act accordingly.

This was the very first time I ever heard of this thing called a "shit test." Yet, as soon as I read this, I had that "light bulb" moment. I immediately recognized how this applied to my past interactions (and failures with women in relationships).

6. Whenever you find yourself wondering what to say or how to act, and wanting to avoid screwing up because you think this girl is THE ONE, imagine how you would treat the hottest babe in your zip code--who happens to be your little sister. You'd tease your little sister, right? You'd laugh at her and call her on it every time she tried to get YOU to behave the same way she gets all the other guys to worship her and do her bidding. When she was acting exceptionally princess-like, you'd tell her of your surprise that she'd wear such a tight skirt when it made her ass look so fat, or a hairstyle that made her ears stick out. Then you’d tell her you liked the way her nose wrinkled up when she got mad, and would she bring you a soda from the kitchen? If you don't think this works, you've never tried it.

More advice on how to neg. Note: No mention of wearing amulets, feather boas or eye liner.

7. Don't get "one-itis." Talk to EVERY girl that catches your eye. Tease them. Let others come shooting with you on other weekends (if they promise to behave.) Pretty girls have lots of options--it just happens. You can have lots of options, too, but it won't just happen. You'll have to see to that yourself.

The final advice - you have to take responsibility for yourself and maintain your state of calm, cool and confident masculinity, and not put a pretty woman up on a pedestal for worship...but tease her and treat her like your kid sister.

I found this stuff fascinating. At that point, in 2007, I had already been "MRA" blogging for a bit, and had fully immersed myself into the subject matter of the divorce industry; the travesty of single mother households and a welfare system that subsidized it; why feminists are sluts and ball busters; the rampant misandry of our system and culture; and all that other MRA topics we are all familiar with.

The MRA blogosphere was my first "Red pill."

Finding John Ross and a few PUA blogs were the next "red pill" I took.

Ross' follow up column to that initial advice gave me another "AHA!" moment of clarity, and it marked the moment where I first began to analyze my own life and my own relationship with my wife and began my personal transformation I eventually related in all those comments at Roissy's blog in 2009.

From Understanding Women & "The Rules" For Men

Judging from my email traffic, a lot of you are absolutely clueless when it comes to dealing with your wives, girlfriends, and women in general. I get more praise for the 7/7/03 column than all the other ones put together, and "Give us more!" is a common refrain. Okay, here goes. It's Women 101 at John Ross University and class is now in session.

Who knew he could've charged these men thousands of dollars by holding a seminar or selling them a DVD set...wait, did we even have DVD's in 2003? I don't remember....

Anyhow, his follow up article is so good, I'm reposting it in it's entirety:

1. Women process (and act on) information completely differently than men. Never forget this. Stop thinking of women as screwed-up men and start realizing that their minds were built from an entirely different blueprint.

Just as a hawk can discern details at distances that a man needs a ten-power scope to see, a woman is many times more capable than a man at reading the emotions of other women. (Women may be equally capable at reading men's emotions, but have never seen a need to.) Walk into a large party with a woman. You, the man, will see a bunch of people in a room, talking in groups of two to five. You'll see where the food and bar is, and notice any exceptionally attractive women in the room. That's it. Your companion, however, will be able to tell you which woman is angry, which one is lonely, which is happy, which is upset, which ones feel self-conscious, which ones are jealous, and (probably) which ones are having affairs and with which men. Your female companion will be able to accurately tell you these things within ten seconds of entering the room.

This ability comes at a price: Women are many times more sensitive than men to emotional pain. Imagine a man whose skin was so sensitive that ordinary contact was painful. Whenever someone shook his hand in greeting or clapped him on the shoulder in congratulations, it would feel to him as if boiling water were being thrown on his flesh. Now turn that disparity in physical sensitivity into emotional sensitivity and you'll get a good picture of a fundamental difference between men and women.

Men seldom if ever need to know what a group of other women is thinking, so they usually experience a woman's heightened sensitivity from the negative perspective. They hurt their wives' feelings without realizing it (just like the handshake in the above hypothetical) and then are baffled when their women are upset with them, often for days or weeks at a time, for seemingly no reason. (I'll discuss what to do about this later. Keep reading.)

2. Men and women have very different definitions of integrity. Men have integrity to their word, but because of the heightened sensitivity as explained above, women have integrity to their feelings.

Women base their actions on how they feel at the time. This means that if something no longer "feels" right, they won't do it, period. It infuriates most men when a woman "flakes" on them. ("Flaking" is the term that men who study this sort of thing use to describe when a woman who has eagerly made plans with them doesn't show up, or calls at the last minute to cancel because her girlfriend needs consoling etc. Roughly speaking, a woman's tendency to flake is proportional to her options and inversely proportional to her age, although I did meet one 38-year-old single mother of two with this habit.) Understand that the need to be true to one's feelings is an extremely powerful force with women. Look at the dominant theme in all romance novels: The woman is "swept away" by emotions too powerful to be denied, and has an affair when everyone knows she shouldn't. Another example is the adage "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned." Even the former First Lady (according to the Secret Service) regularly threw things (lamps, etc.) at her husband when angry. Can you imagine a man doing this, instead of saying "Next"? The idea is ludicrous.

If you're a man, you probably do what you've agreed to do (help someone move, etc.) because you said you would. However, you wouldn't go through with your plans to help your acquaintance move if it had suddenly become a felony with a mandatory 10-year prison sentence to do so, would you? Of course not. Ten years in prison trumps a promise to move furniture. Well, that is the kind of aversion that women have to doing things that no longer "feel" right. Later I'll explain how to make this "integrity to feelings" work to your benefit.

3. Most women are much more rational than most men at the initial meeting. For all of men's complaints about "screwed-up 'chick logic'," it is men who unconsciously fall into a very irrational pattern of behavior when they first meet a new woman that interests them.

Upon meeting an attractive and perhaps interesting woman for the first time, most men behave as if they are thinking about...wait for it...marriage! Hollywood has bombarded us with "love at first sight" stories, but what kind of message does it really send to a woman you've just met that you've already decided she's the one? It screams pathetic loser who couldn't get laid in a women's prison with a fistful of pardons. "One-itis" is the absolute death knell to any person's chance with someone new. Women know this. Men, as a rule, don't.

There's an old saying that "To meet her handsome prince, a girl has to kiss a lot of frogs." Given that few American women age well or are financially self-sufficient, this adage is much more appropriate for men aspiring to marriage than it is for women.

4. What women say they want and what they actually do want are two different things. Men need to be keenly aware of this and act accordingly. The crap that women claim they want in the personals ads is exactly the kind of thing that would have the same women running for the nearest exit out of boredom if the men actually provided it.

Women want to feel attraction for someone, and attraction doesn't come from finding a man who is sensitive, or caring, or likes long walks on the beach, cats, and candlelight dinners, has a college education or a good job. Attraction isn't a choice. Attraction comes from that little shiver of anticipation of not knowing what's coming next, of not being able to pigeonhole the man she's with into any one category, of being just a little bit off-balance and not in total control.

5. Women read things into men's actions that aren't there. Accept that, and make it work for you, if possible. This phenomenon probably comes from women's heightened emotional sensitivity. It may also come from the need many women have for drama (and for some women, chaos) in their lives.

What the above things mean for you, and how to stop screwing up like you've been doing:

Dealing with a woman's heightened sensitivity: When a woman complains about a problem in her life (she will see it as "sharing," not complaining), never offer a solution to the problem. She doesn't want to fix it, she wants to relive it, over and over. Show sympathy but suggest that only another woman could truly understand what she's going through. This acknowledges women's superior emotional capacity. Depending on how you say it, it may send another unspoken message if the complaining was a test (and it probably was): You're trying my patience here. I don't fall for that BS. Watch it.

Integrity to feelings: If you can keep a woman in the state of feeling excited, anxious, off-balance, and emotional when she's around you, you can pretty much lead her wherever you want. An extreme example of this is the group of attractive young women who did anything they were told by a homely little runt of a man named Charles Manson. I'm not advising that you turn into a sociopath, but it's kind of fun getting the girl you met this afternoon to slip off her thong during dinner and hand it to you. Learning how to keep a woman's emotional state at the desired level takes a lot of practice and experimenting (which is fun) and can't be described in a one-page column, but here's a start: Women are attracted to Mystery, Uncertainty (not the same thing), Confidence and Arrogance when combined with humor, and believe it or not, Indifference. Observe the desirable women you know that are obsessed with their boyfriends and you will see that the boyfriends invariably exhibit these qualities, irrespective of whether they are decent guys or total jerks.

Gifts: Gifts can be good at eliciting emotions and even smoothing the rough spots, but don't make the mistake of giving the wrong kind. You'll go broke and not accomplish what you intended. Since women's emotions are so powerful, realize that all gifts to women have a soothing effect and "goodwill time frame" that is proportional to the emotion evoked. This has nothing to do with the value or utility of the gift, believe me. Whether you're in the early stages of a relationship or have been married ten years, never give expensive gifts, agree to extensive home remodeling that you don't particularly want, expensive trips, etc. in the hope that it will improve her feelings for you. If you do, you'll be paying for the expenditure long after your girlfriend or wife has stopped smiling at you for what you did. Instead, give little nothing gifts like a funny card, or a stuffed animal holding flowers, and say "I was thinking of you today." Do this at unexpected times. A week later (or maybe even the next day), the $12 stuffed Dalmatian with the heart-shaped spots will be forgotten, and your woman's attitude will probably (and understandably) be "What have you done for me lately?" But guess what? The same thing will happen a week after you agree to pay for her eight-year-old's private school tuition, which is a $120,000 tab over ten years. You do the math. The exception to this rule is if you decide to give an expensive, useful gift to a woman who needs it and who has been exceptionally good to you already. Few men do this. Men usually give presents, take women to expensive restaurants, etc. in the hope that the recipient will be grateful. THIS DOES NOT WORK. Expensive gifts should always be unexpected rewards. They should never be attempted inducements.

Testing: Reread my 7/7 column's comments on tests. Remember that testing will continue until one of you dies. Even if you break up, she will probably test you if an opportunity presents itself. Plan for this accordingly.

Flaking: The younger and hotter the girl, the greater the chance she will flake. Hotties and flaking are like alcoholics and drinking: If they can, they probably will. The only way to completely prevent an alcoholic from drinking or a hottie from flaking it is to create an environment where it cannot occur, like sending the alcoholic to live in the Saudi desert. To prevent flaking, only offer an activity if it is something you can do right now. Get her to do something fun and exciting with you right at that moment. If she demurs, end the conversation as quickly as possible and eject--don't coerce. When she stops you from leaving and says to call her so you can make plans, don't believe her, and call her on it. Tell her you like talking to live people, not voicemail. Tell her that maybe you'll offer something else if you run into her again. Unspoken message: Seize the day.

What if you absolutely have to plan a "date" in advance with someone you suspect may flake on you? When you make the plans, give the girl something specific to do, like to be sure she's wearing a silk scarf around her waist when you pick her up. Don't tell her why, but make sure she realizes that she has to do it, or you'll turn around and leave if she opens the door and isn't wearing the scarf. She will spend all her time before the date wondering about this, selecting the perfect scarf, etc. She'll be caught up in the mystery, drama, and anticipation (women love these things) and she won't be thinking that "going on this date doesn't feel right anymore."

Initial meetings: Follow the three second rule. You've got three seconds from the time you first notice a desirable woman to the time you say something to her. If you take longer than that, cross her off the list and move on, because she's crossed you off her list of possibles. Never work up your courage to talk to a girl that you've been looking at across the room for ten minutes. Women hate this. And for God's sake, never use some service to track down the girl you lusted after in high school or college. This is called stalking, and unless you graduated within the past 6 months, chances are she now looks nothing like the goddess you worshipped from afar. There are better women who don't have any bad preconceptions about you as close as the nearest Starbucks, Borders, Safeway, or QuikTrip. Unless you live in a remote area, pretty girls are everywhere. Always operate from a theory of abundance. There are more available women in your area than you could ever meet, but they're not going to come looking for you. Get out and chat up as many of them as possible. Most will turn out to be frogs. Expect it. (And realize your high school dream girl that you were thinking about tracking down is probably a frog.) You won't find a princess by convincing yourself that the one girl you've met in the last month is one. Meeting and dating lots of women gives you a much more accurate perspective and has the added benefit of making you more attractive to women, not less.

Dating multiple women: If you don't want a woman to think of herself as your one and only girlfriend, don't do things that would make her think that way. Don't call her every day. Don't see her three or four times a week. Be up front, and say "I think too many people get into exclusive relationships far too quickly, and it's not healthy. I wouldn't even consider having an exclusive relationship with someone I'd known less than six months." Most people, and women are no exception, will accept most anything if it is not a surprise. Don't lie and sneak around. If you see other women and she has a problem with this when she's only recently met you, she is NOT the one. Next.

Enjoy women for what they are, and don't imagine them to be something they aren't. It may sound harsh or negative, but real women are seldom like what we see in movies written by male screenwriters or read about in novels written by male authors. The cute waitress where you eat lunch may visually remind you of Meg Ryan (or whoever) in the movie where she played a waitress, but don't for one second imagine the real-life waitress to be as intelligent or interesting as the writers who gave Meg her lines. Flirt with the waitress and let her presence make your lunch more pleasant, but don't start going there every day and turn her into some fantasy of yours ("One-itis"). At best, you'll waste a bunch of better opportunities mooning around her at lunchtime, while she smiles at you but otherwise blows you off. At worst, she'll eventually accept your advances, and (since you were fixated on only her and had no other women to compare her to) you'll end up married before you figure out that aside from being nice to look at (for now), there isn't much else you really enjoy about her.

Don't be ordinary. Talk about your job, school, hobbies, etc? Forget it! If she launches into the same old questions, accuse her of husband-hunting, and tell her you're not ready for that. Be teasing and mysterious. Never give a straight answer unless it's "No." Women will complain that they "can never figure you out and it's driving them crazy." This is evidence that you are doing the right things.

Spank her. Spank her bottom lightly when she does something you don't like. Spank her harder when she does something good. I discovered this years ago and the worst results I've ever gotten were neutral. The best were volcanic. (I don't do this unless I know at least her first name, but that's just me--it's probably not necessary.)

When in doubt, tease. Keep the "Bratty Sister Frame" firmly in your mind (see 7/7 column). Call her on her girl-like behavior. If she mentions modeling, say, "Oh, you mean like a hand model?" Tell her that her long fingers remind you of E.T. If she's cute but her clothes are odd-looking to your eye, ask her if she got dressed in the dark. You get the idea.

Sex in long term relationships: If a good long-term sex life with one woman is important to you, never get into a committed relationship (such as marriage) with a slender woman unless she is genetically slender. 200-lb. women who have always been heavy are usually comfortable with themselves and have good sex drives. Former 125-lb. hotties that gain 75 pounds after saying "I do" often lose all interest in sex and are a very bad bet for the long haul. I know dozens of men who found this out the hard way. Conversely, no man I know with a fat partner who has always been fat (I actually prefer the word "plush") is dissatisfied with his wife or girlfriend's level of desire. The old admonition about taking a long look at the mother before proposing is sound advice.

If you want to marry a rich girl: Rich women are no different than other women in that they are turned on by a man's passion for his work. Keep in mind that not just any kind of work qualifies. Women are attracted to artists, especially musicians. Rock stars don't get just high school groupies, they get rich actresses like Pamela Anderson and rich supermodels like Rachel Hunter and Paulina Porizkova. Singers in local bands do equally well on a smaller level. Women (including rich ones) go for other passionate artists such as actors, dancers, painters, and sculptors.* If you are a passionate artist, you're a good bet to snag a rich girl, who will likely be happy to support you and your passion. If you go this route, keep the rich girl interested by pursuing your passion WITHOUT going through all her money! Live comfortably but don't start to believe your own bullshit, getting her to fund your big (and inevitably money-losing) dreams of grandeur. NEVER let her dip into principal. If you do, be prepared to be thrown out on your ear. Any successful investment professional can tell you horror stories about rich women clients with artist husbands who cooked the goose that laid the golden eggs.

Maybe this will hold you clueless guys for a while. More later.

Man, he wrote this in 2003. As far as I can tell from reading all of his other articles, Ross didn't attend PUA seminars, buy Mystery's book or subscribe to David DeAngelo's newsletter. Yet every last piece of advice he gives here jibes with most of what we commonly call "Game Theory." Note: no mention of the words hypergamy or social dominance or manipulation. It's just straight up advice, the kind that used to be transmitted from older males to younger males.

As I later found out, Ross got his game advice the old fashioned way: from his Father.

I talked to Dad about how this girl made me feel when I looked at her. He smiled knowingly.

"Son, she probably won't look that way for long. She might, but don’t count on it. Enjoy looking at her for now. But here's some advice: If you want to do more than just look at her, then don't ever talk about her good looks or tell her she's beautiful."

"Why not?"

"Because everyone else is always doing that, and it gets old. Girls want a challenge, just like boys do. They don’t want the same old compliments, they want a challenge."

"I don't understand."

"When you play shortstop, do you want the boys on the other team to all strike out every time? No, that would be boring. You want them to hit the ball to you, so you can throw them out at first base. Maybe you'll bobble the ball, and the batter will get on base, but you want the chance to make a good play, right? If you tell a pretty girl she's pretty, you're not hitting the ball to her. You're not giving her any challenge at all. You aren't in the game. Get in the game. Hit the ball to her. Give her a challenge."

"How do I do that?" Dad grinned at me when he heard this.

"Tease her about something. Say something about her that makes her jaw drop, and then act a little surprised at her reaction. But always be calm. Don't ever be mean, but give her brain a little tweak, see how she reacts, and then do it again. You're good at thinking on your feet. When a fellow sees a girl he likes, he plays with her, only not with a bat and a baseball glove, but with words and body language and facial expressions. Do that with this Jenny girl. And never back down, no matter what happens. Never break eye contact with her while the two of you are talking—let her be the one to look away. Think about it." He saw my face register some comprehension, and he added another thought. "Don't worry so much about her. Make sure you have fun. Figure out a way to tease her. And have fun."

Many critics of "game" call "negs" and "cocky/funny banter" as manipulative, wrong, evil, dishonest, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Many people who seem to understand and support game are often troubled about using the term "GAME" itself, making it sound un-serious, or trivial, or whatever other criticisms they may use because they really just don't get what it's all about.

It IS a Game.

Like any other game, if you know the rules, know how it's played, and you can discern the many variations and permutations that can arise during the course of the game, you will certainly enjoy playing the game. Even if you end up losing, a well played game can be enjoyed despite coming up short.

Unfortunately, some people simply can't grasp the strategies and tactics, they never understand the subtle nuances of the action, and they simply write it all off as a waste of time. Others try to play, but don't have the patience or self-awareness or humility necessary to learn from initial failure. Game is not for everyone.

But the entire point of blogging, talking, discussing and writing about it, is to at least make some men wake up to something they never even considered in the first place - that there is actually even a Game going on at all.

It's a game called the human mating dance.

Nobody said you HAVE to play.

You are perfectly within your rights to take your balls and go home.


SethEng said...

I remember running across John Ross long before I'd ever heard of the manosphere. Wasn't ready for the advice at the time, but it might be why I prefer the advice of the older men in the 'sphere. Less hormone driven and more solid things from experience. And a lot less feather boas and chest thumping.

The Boar said...

This is golden advice; the man summed up all Game concepts in short, concise points. And like you pointed out, he didn’t study Game or whatever -he knows this because obviously he’s a real man, as is father who taught him all this.

I made a point on AVfM debate that Game isn’t anything special; it’s only condensed knowledge which should have been passed on us [young men] by our fathers – but it wasn’t, because the concept of masculinity is being systematically removed from our society. So instead of learning this stuff from our fathers or other male role-models, we have to learn it from books and videos (or blogs).

Unfortunately, some men never learn it – and then they whine about how women are stupid and evil toward men like the guys over at AVfM. I know this firsthand because not long ago I had the same mindset as them – I was rationalizing my failures as a man to the point that I started to believe that all women out there are out to “get me”. In truth, I was a spineless little pussy. But it takes a lot of courage of accepting that truth (or so I think) and doing something to change it. I did that, and although I don’t have “tight game” my entire worldview became more optimistic and - lo and behold - I immediately started to attract women – without peacocking or delivering pickup lines; but simply by applying the same advice as listed above.

Anyhow, I’ll also say this – this is the very blog that changed my life for the better (specifically “Game is the red pill” article). Seriously, if I hadn’t chanced upon it, I would be still running around trying to impress girls with my niceness, while simultaneously holding them in contempt when they rejected me. A big THANK YOU from me, Keoni.

Anonymous said...

Game is nothing new. Well, the word is, but its principles have been around ever since male-female relations began.

Hell, I remember my Grandpa “negging” my Grandma, showing “amused mastery”, and passing “shit tests” without breaking a sweat, back in the early 80s.

Of course, back then it was just called “being a man”.

Anonymous said...

Of course, back then there were still men (fathers) living in the house, passing on their wisdom. Given the break-up of the traditional family and general disparagement of masculinity resulting from feminist overreach, is it any surprise that an entire generation or two of boys have grown into men that don't know this stuff, and that Game learned via the internet is now necessary?

Fidel Naidoo said...


Many phrases and sentences in this guy's work come out in David D's works, namely his "Double your Dating", and "Attraction isn't a choice".

It looks well to me that he picked up on this guy's posts in the shooting forum and took some plagiarism on John Ross's work for his $40,000,000 a year income.

I'm talking about treating someone "like a bratty kid sister", and David D's trademark phrase "Attraction isn't a Choice.", etc.

Long Duc Dong said...

If you ever had a bratty little sister then you know everything you need to know about game. They will annoy the crap out of you to get the attention because they hate being ignored and then try to get you to do all kinds of shit for them you don’t want to do. The bottom line is if you are doing more stuff for them than they are doing for you it gets old pretty quick. All this game theory about what to do in every situation gets tedious just reading about it. Every man does a cost benefit analysis. Either it’s worth the trouble or it isn’t. I have found that mostly it isn’t.

Keoni Galt said...

Glad you got some good from all this, Boar. Guys like you are why I still bother.

Fidel - Damn, I never even considered that...DeAngelo may have taken Ross advice here and made his fortune on it? At least the advice had a solid foundation.

John said...

I like your blog in general, but this post is absolutely riddled with cognitive dissonance and contradictions (and false alternatives). I am not going to get into in detail, but here is one examples that is pretty much the pattern;

1) Maintain an air of quiet competence.

2)I s this being "manipulative" or "putting up a false front"......?" Nope.

Do you genuinely not notice the contradiction in these two statements?

What if I dont FEEL quietly competent? Isnt pretending I do obviously *putting up a false front*?

Why should I CARE what she thinks of me? Does that make me stronger or weaker?

Let me put it to you this way - the man who HIDES his feelings of insecurity out of fear of what others think is WEAKER than the man who is insecure and openly admits it. BOTH are weak - but one is weaker. The one who has one MORE fear - the one who is not merely insecure but afraid of others seeing it - is even weaker than the one who is merely insecure

Another clue - needing to pretend you are confident when you do not feel that way merely becomes another source of fear - fear of being found out - and makes you even less confident.

The way to achieve GENUINE confidence is to STOP CARING what others think, EVEN if it means letting them see your insecurity and lack of confidence. It takes courage, daring, and honesty, but it is worth it.

These distinctions are somewhat subtle and may take some time and meditation to finally sink and be absorbed. I realize most guys have mental blocks that make it hard to understand what might appear to me obvious distinctions. But I guarantee you it is well worth the effort for the payoff in growth in genuine confidence.

No offense, you write a great blog, but this entire post depends on systematic contradictions of the above described nature, and a systematic failure to understand basic distinctions.

I hope one day you can grasp that. Cheers

November 7, 2011 10:37 AM

John said...

Just to clarify, I am not in the least saying that you should supplicate to your wife.

I am rather saying that trying to maintain a front is merely one more form of supplication - you are still living in fear of her thoughts and opinions. You are still reactive rather than internally directed. You are still a follower not a leader.

Keoni Galt said...

John, look at the big picture. Ross is talking about demonstrating your competence and confidence - but you actually have to have it. Ross is advising this guy show his confidence and competence in pursuing his passion of hobby shooting.

Nowhere does he advocate 'Faking' anything.

Aside from that, I get this sense that there are a lot of men that are angry with the idea that men shouldn't emote their insecurities and fears as somehow supplicating or being fake.

I think it's just sucking it up.

We are men, and no one feels sorry for men. We are the disposable sex.

No body cares to here men whine or see them cry.

The most important thing to take from this piece is the following:

Attraction is not a choice. Most women who are not tightly bonded to a mate, are going to feel attraction for a fearful, crying man. They may feel sorry for him, but not attracted.

John said...

If one has confidence and competence, that is observable in the appropriate contexts. Making a point of showing it indicates an need to win approval from others. Confident people typically do not make a point of demonstrating anything. They are confident it will appear in the natural order of things, and in any event dont much care what others think.

I guess condensed into a nutshell my point is that needing to win the approval or respect of another person - and making any effort to do so - is a form of weakness.

Simply ceasing to care what others think of one is the greatest form of strength you can have.

*Being strong* IN ORDER to make others impressed with you undercuts the genuineness of your strength, being strength implies indifference to the opinions others might have you.

Does that make sense? Do you see perhaps any merit in that idea?

By the way, interestingly ROISSY just made a post today ADMITTING that game involves supplication and slavery and just saying he *does not want to be emancipated* if this means he gets *the exquisite pleasure of sex* (what is he a teenager? Who talks that way about sex after having had it a few times?)

If Gamers were as radically honest as Roissy, men might make a choice if slavery is worth it.

John said...

And men are the indispensible sex. Buying into this kind of misandric men are the disposable sex stuff really hurts your male self-esteem. And it just is not true despite its wrapping of pseudo-science evo-psyche.

Women may not be attracted to tearful men. But it is weak to be preoccupied with what women are attracted to.

And you dont have to make an extravagant point of displaying your fear through tears, but you can admit you are afraid if asked, and not deny it or seek to hide it.

John said...

I suppose I am saying that if you feel fear you should find the source of your fear and see if you can eliminate it, not add one more fear by living in fear of what women (or anyone) will think of you. That is compounding your fear.

Keoni Galt said...

I suppose I am saying that if you feel fear you should find the source of your fear and see if you can eliminate it

I'll agree with that!

John, my point is that being circumspect and reserved (i.e. not emoting your every fear and insecurity) is not the same as "being afraid a woman will find out about your fears" and "faking" something.

John said...

Right, you dont have to advertise it nor do you have to deny it or seek to hide it.

Failing to volunteer information in inappropriate contexts is certainly not faking.

Anyways, good luck with everything. I will just leave you with the reflection that the more you try to be liked by someone, the weaker you become, and the more dependent on that person you become.

The really hard thing for most guys (including me for a long time) to grasp is that this is true EVEN if what you are doing to be liked is becoming more confident and being a leader. Its a somewhat subtle point, and game exploits the subtlety of this point to craft a sophisticated poison, a trojan horse - game lures you with the siren song of confidence, but once you let game within your walls you discover to your horror that you opened the gates to an enemy that eats away at the very roots of your confidence.

Unfortunately it can take years of suffering through psychological weakness before one becomes aware of its source, because the trojan horse is designed to look benign. It took me ages, so I am not judging.

Cheers, and good luck!

Loki said...

Women want men to lead, and you can't be a leader if you show fear.

Fear sucks energy.

If you want to lead, then you must create for your followers an environment within which they can convince themselves that everything will turn out ok.

This will allow them to operate at their full potential, and then you and they will succeed, if success is possible.

Fear is an internal struggle that wastes resources, and it is possible to learn to set it aside, and then move past it and forward toward a solution.

This is illustrated nicely in the movie "Six Days Seven Nights" starring Harrison Ford and Anne Heche, especially the scene at the top of the mountain.

Keoni: excellent article.

John: you don't know enough, and you aren't enough, to be so arrogant and condescending.

Anonymous said...

"John: you don't know enough, and you aren't enough, to be so arrogant and condescending."

QFT. What an aspie.

John said...

Women want men to lead, and you can't be a leader if you show fear.

I honestly do not give a shit. Unlike you, I do not obsess over what women want. I am not her trained poodle.

Why not try being your own for once? Hey, you never know, it might appeal.

Anonymous said...

John: I agree. I think Kool Moe Dee sums it up in his eighties hit "I'm a player": "To get a girl you don't have to lie, unless you're just an average guy."


Anonymous said...

Delusion Damage said...

Why do I get the feeling (at least some of) you guys think this man made this stuff up in his back yard with his dad, like some sort of "immaculate conception of game before game was even born", or something?

Sorry to burst your bubble - it's an exciting idea, but no. The quoted passages are rife with references to early 2000s PUA concepts and terminology (and at one point he even talks about "men who study this sort of thing"! Giveaway much?), and it's plainly obvious from reading this that it's heavily influenced by the early "seduction community", both ideas and language.

It's still great advice and all, but there's no need to worry that this dude is some sort of crack genius who invented everything that the big gurus then "stole" into their million-dollar businesses. He's clearly a student of the same phase of PUA that Neil Strauss talks about in the first half of "The Game".

Crimson Viceroy said...

I wanted to ask this of “gamers” everywhere. I am having an extremely difficult time swallowing that portion of the red pill cause most of my self confidence is based on illusion. At what point do you come to balance and equilibrium with the fact that you are NOT everything that you project yourself to be. Cause honestly, the more I read into “Game and PUA” theory, the more it sounds like “fake it till you make it”. I understand that women are fraudulent creatures and lies and deception are the syntax and diction of their language, but at a certain point they will be able to point out your bullshit that you are trying to deliver as confidence. The way I see it, most men are not born alpha’s, hence the relatively “high price” for them in the SMP. Therefore, there are only a few men who have had that “right mixture of physical and psychological traits” that tend to attract that modern woman. When you introduce game, what you are trying to do is go against the very blueprint schematics of who you are.

Frankly, it is the entire “fake it till you make it” paradigm that is built off of fraud, which I don’t have such a problem since women are creatures of deception and lies and therefore the very syntax and diction of their language is predicated upon lies and misdirection. However, the concern comes in when you are found to be a fraud yourself, cause despite what all those “playa’s” want to believe that the game can go on forever…it can’t.

“You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time” Eventually you will be found out to be the fraud that you are presenting to others. For a man to be truly confident, he has to have experienced a modicum of success and use that as a driving mechanism to prove to himself that he can do such a thing again. Now, if you have never really succeeded, than at that point you are playing a game that is based on how sure you are that you will win, when the rules are never revealed to you in the first place. I’m sorry, but then it becomes a matter of mental chess to overcome your rational brain and fool it into thinking that you are everything and a bag of chips, when in reality your rational brain is giving you a very hard honest self-assessment of who you really are. At that point you are simply betraying who you truly are and how long can that facade continue. When the curtain pulls back, you are left there in the proverbial nude in front of an audience totally speechless.

Will continue in another comment since there is a 4000 character limit.

With fraternal love and brotherhood,

Crimson Viceroy

Crimson Viceroy said...

Continuing my comment:

Recommending to those who have been marginalized, denigrated, and mocked for their humble, honest, and hard-working natures to simply “get game” is similar to a fucking SoCon telling these men to “man up”. It is a useless and contrived option that offers no clear solution other than the false delusion of getting a good fuck in. Sorry gents, but just as woman’s body is hers, so is a man’s body and if we are to face this evil, we must face the weakness within ourselves. I have always admired men’s ability to evolve from their station and shortcomings in life and to reshape their world to adapt to their new realities. Now PUA may be the adaptive strategy that is employed by “beta’s” but frankly it is only like placing a bandage on a mortal wound instead of dealing with the root cause of the problem.

This might be a bit too forward, but telling young men that all they have to do is forfeit their character and adapt a set of traits that would make them total assholes is a temporary solution. I am brought to understand the something my father shared with me before he passed away regarding confidence:

“Confidence is a process that is lifelong, one in which you build character from life experiences. It is not overnight and cannot be fucking faked. Matter of fact, usually confidence means that you stand by your convictions but don’t search for trouble or seek out opportunities to show how tough you are or exude false bravado.”

Stay true to who you are and forget about women. They have proven their irrelevance and their inability to live amicably and peacefully. I say this to all the guys who are completely depressed because they were told that the ultimate form of acceptance is to be able to have a good lay with a woman. I don’t mean to cause strife or rifts in this forum, but I wanted to present the other side of the coin.

Fact of the matter is that you will never be able to change who you are. Finding balance and equilibrium with who you are is entirely possible and that is why there are so many books written on the subject. I figure it is better than just pretending to be something you really aren’t. Being de-romanticized and the true nature of women is simply MRA or MRM education, not PUA or Game. You go down the road of manipulating Game you better know about the consequences before you end up in a fucking date rape case. I have seen it happen to men, and frankly I don’t have an ounce of pity for them cause they kept on parading their “alpha assholehood” to the rest of us. Humility is the name of the game. Confidence comes from a character grounded in understanding your own shortcomings and accepting who you are…regardless of how you persuade women to get in bed without too much fighting. Fuck that. You are are not what you do, not what you wear, not what you drive, and sure as hell you are NOT WHAT YOU FUCK!

With fraternal love and brotherhood,

Crimson Viceroy

Crimson Viceroy said...

Continuation again (I'm starting to hate Blogger):

What men here call “game education” on the true nature of women, is only part of the picture. Game’s ultimate motive, or at least the classical examples demonstrated herein from most members, is that it will allow someone to navigate the emotional and social minefield of dating and hook-up culture to ultimately get laid. Coming to a realization about the disgusting, disloyal, dishonorable, misandric, and morally reprehensible nature of the unleashed apathetic beast known as modern woman seems to be a side-effect. Therefore, my proposal is to simply separate the education of the nature of our enemy for the ultimate focus and prime directive of waking up men’s minds to MRA/MGTOW philosophies..nothing more. At the very least, tying in MRA with “game” is going to water down the very legitimate disclosure we have to offer to the general male population regarding misandry and FemiNazi governance. It is the opposite side of the same problem…altering one’s behavior to seek approval from women, instead of being a chivalric white knight, you are being the nonchalant disinterested “bad boy”. Both lack quality of character and anything deeper than the insight towards getting some pussy.

Rise, men, rise and take up the pride that is your inheritance of being blessed and gifted, THAT’S RIGHT BLESSED, with being born with a Y-chromosome. Embrace who you are, everything that you have done so far, and accept the character that you have so far cultivated, not for the sake of anything to do with WOEmynn kind, but to forge a destiny free of misandry, and the general bile of modern FemiNazi womanhood. If you give them an inch, they will take a mile. How far are we willing to slide in our moral infrastructure to get a moment’s worth of fleshly pleasure? Isn’t this the kind of thinking that landed us into this misandric shithole in the first place? I honestly mean no disrespect if someone adheres strictly to Game, but it is time that we stopped playing their games and forge ahead with our assault and crusade against misandry.

The primary thing that stands, at least for me, in the way of achieving a full measure of resolve in throwing my entire set of mental resources into this fight is a shred of weakness for “companionship” with the female of our species. This I find to be an inherent weakness that is used against us at every impasse and must be PERMANENTLY suppressed in order to achieve a full measure of victory. We have to eliminate the misandry from within before dealing with misandry from without. Game is nothing more than self-abasement of one’s own moral fiber in order to relearn basic communication mechanisms for what, a good fuck? Is that it? The accumulation of years of life experience, character building struggles and challenges, all forfeited so that you can gain a sense of confidence just so you can seek approval from women? That is nothing more than “self-evolution” on the basis of shame in one’s self. Even if women flock to you after you have learned a sense of would be nothing more than a hindrance and challenge to maintain your newly reformed sense of identity and self-ACCEPTANCE. Game is nothing more than a coping mechanism that instinctually tells women to fucking continue their game of bullshit. Being totally free of any thoughts of concern towards them, means exactly that..not ulterior motives of fucking them. They have to be completely outside the mind of a freed man. A man who is completely under the jurisdiction of his FREE AGENCY, not his biological urges to fuck. This is just me, but the biological urge to fuck is nothing more than an inherent flaw in character that must be eradicated as sex has been weaponized to a deadly level for the common man. Only a man that has mastered himself will be immune to such a deadly weapon. Gaming is nothing more than playing with a fucking python hoping that you can tame it long enough to stroke it and that it won’t strike you back.

With fraternal love and brotherhood,

Crimson Viceroy

Crimson Viceroy said...

What men here call “game education” on the true nature of women, is only part of the picture. Game’s ultimate motive, or at least the classical examples demonstrated herein from most members, is that it will allow someone to navigate the emotional and social minefield of dating and hook-up culture to ultimately get laid. Coming to a realization about the disgusting, disloyal, dishonorable, misandric, and morally reprehensible nature of the unleashed apathetic beast known as modern woman seems to be a side-effect. Therefore, my proposal is to simply separate the education of the nature of our enemy for the ultimate focus and prime directive of waking up men’s minds to MRA/MGTOW philosophies..nothing more. At the very least, tying in MRA with “game” is going to water down the very legitimate disclosure we have to offer to the general male population regarding misandry and FemiNazi governance. It is the opposite side of the same problem…altering one’s behavior to seek approval from women, instead of being a chivalric white knight, you are being the nonchalant disinterested “bad boy”. Both lack quality of character and anything deeper than the insight towards getting some pussy.

Embrace who you are, everything that you have done so far, and accept the character that you have so far cultivated, not for the sake of anything to do with WOEmynn kind, but to forge a destiny free of misandry, and the general bile of modern FemiNazi womanhood. If you give them an inch, they will take a mile. How far are we willing to slide in our moral infrastructure to get a moment’s worth of fleshly pleasure? Isn’t this the kind of thinking that landed us into this misandric shithole in the first place? I honestly mean no disrespect if someone adheres strictly to Game, but it is time that we stopped playing their games and forge ahead with our struggle to bring balance and equilibrium back to a really fucked up world.

With fraternal love and brotherhood,

Crimson Viceroy

dannyfrom504 said...

very good post brudduh. i'm linking this.

Yohami said...

Thanks for sharing that stuff, I never heard of John Ross and he´s so on point.

Justin said...

"Note: no mention of the words hypergamy or social dominance or manipulation."

That is the key. It is good old fashioned man-wisdom, without all the atheistic and nihilistic psuedo-science that the HBDers have injected into it.

Above commenter has a good point, thought, its not like this was from the pre-PUA era.

Keoni Galt said...

Delusion D - Well what can I say, I have never read "The Game" from Strauss, nor have I ever read Mystery or any other well known Game Guru's book. Hell, the only seduction forum I've ever read was a few threads at SoSauve on occasion.

What I think this guys articles show, was applying the PUA theories in explaining the advice he received from his Father when he was 13 years old. I highly doubt there was any such thing as PUA books or a PUA community back when Ross' Dad was explaining the mystery of girls to him.

Which is why I say "Game" really used to be the sort of advice Father's who knew what was up gave to their son's.

To everyone else - I really don't care to debate this topic. We already had 6 installments at AvFM, several at Chuck's and Frost's, etc.

Frankly, I've come to the conclusion that this topic is just something you either understand or you don't. I'm not trying to convince you skeptics or win any kind of debate.

I merely share these articles that were basically MY introduction to the topic of Game. For a guy raised by a thoroughly beta Father who is clueless and didn't explain anything to me when I was a teen, these articles were a serious revelation to me.

John said...

Crimson - *not all men are born alpha*.

An alpha is by definition someone who does his own thing without giving a crap what others think of him.

Learning to to do things so women will like you is the surest way to fail at being an alpha. As you correctly note, it will leak out in your body language and facial expression and you will be the kind of weak person who is trying to project strength.We all know those kinds of guys. They are pretty obvious.

Anonymous said...

"Above commenter has a good point, thought, its not like this was from the pre-PUA era."

Agreed. This isn't really anything new... but, sadly it is new for a lot of young men who were conditioned by feminized society and culture to be polite, obedient little "nice guys" instead of.. you know, men.

Sad that we live in a world were just "acting male" and "being a man" is marketed like it's a super top secret method to get women to like you. Not where we should be, but it's where we are right now.

Keoni Galt said...

"Above commenter has a good point, thought, its not like this was from the pre-PUA era."

The third article I cited from John Ross was describing his Father's advice to him when he was a 13 year old boy. IIRC, John Ross is now in his 50's.

That was certainly 'pre-PUA' era.

Conan the Cimmerian said...

Instant classic HL.

Linked and posted at my site.

Great post

Susan Walsh said...

Thanks, Keoni, I appreciate the presentation of these truths separate from PUA, MRA or any other groupthink.

This is the oral tradition that we have lost, and I'm grateful to John Ross for writing it down, and to you for sharing it.

ElectricAngel said...

For a guy raised by a thoroughly beta Father who is clueless and didn't explain anything to me when I was a teen, these articles were a serious revelation to me.

This really is the nub of the issue, HL. As Nietzsche wrote, "If a man has not had a good father, he must create one." The Internet allows men who have had beta fathers (mine is very smart and beta to the max. I remember my Irish friend's drunk father, and how his kids looked forward to his return from work; my father never got that. Failure to lead. He was the result of a broken home.) So many of the older anti-Game people are Baby Boomers, who grew up in a society that had not yet lost its freaking mind, and they likely had two-parent families. Now, not so much. Boys NEED fathers, and if the real one has been removed, then teh interwebz will have to do. As U@ sang, "A link is lost, a chain undone; we wait all day, for night to come."

Suddenly, given the insights gained from studying this theory, many men realize how and why events and relationships in their pasts turned out the way they did, where they went right, and in most importantly, where they went wrong.

This is exactly my thinking as well. When I first discovered Game through a link from TakiMag, it was amusing, like a travelogue of a foreign country I'll never visit. Then I found the Roissy post of your amalgamated comments, Dave, and suddenly the fog lifted.

The problem is a religious one afflicting our society. As CS Lewis wrote, we have become "men without chests." You have helped me to regrow a chest, and to live as MAN, not a superannuated boy.

And Game is life. I was presenting at a seminar two months back, and I got a question about handling a difficult student's snide comment. Without pausing, I advised: "Agree and amplify." (This advice given to a feminist, who liked it and thought to adopt it.) Simply, IT WORKS, because it is in alignment with the way things are supposed to be.