Over the past several years, I've watched with growing fascination at the emergence of the MAndrosphere's "red pill" paradigm being discussed, debated, denounced or defended amongst self-professed Christian bloggers and commentariat alike. I myself have literally wasted hours of my life arguing on teh Interwebz about the topic. Many of my first posts on the topic of Game, were inspired by debates with Christians on the appropriateness and validity of Game for Christian-believers.
Funny thing, I was raised a Christian from birth until my rebellious teenage years where I fell into an agnostic, hedonistic lifestyle and world view. I was born into a rather common denomination found throughout the Western world of Christian-themed religion: The Order of the White Knights of Chivalrous Churchianity, Holy Defenders of the Female Imperative.
The physical and spiritual emasculation I endured as a young male growing up in that devious, subversive indoctrination always just felt wrong, which is why as soon as I was old enough to resist my parents, I stopped going to church, and dwindled into unbelief for over two decades.
Ironically, it was the years spent reading and participating in this "MAndrosphere" (a clearing house for ideas) that brought me back around to the reconsideration of the validity and truths of the Bible - a book I've recently read last year, for the first time as an adult. All that I've learned via the University of the Autodidact gave me a much different perspective and understanding of the precepts and moral imperatives in what is written in the good book.
Which is why I find it even more fascinating to see so many other Christians who stumble across these fringes of teh Interwebz and immediately denounce "game" and all of it's associated topics as wrong, evil, sinful, etc. Having endured a childhood of Churchian brainwashing regarding the Holiness of the Spiritually In-tune Vagina and the defiled, sinful state of testosterone, I understand the immediate distaste so many Christians have when they first find these radical, unconventional discussions going on in the MAndrosphere.
I had no such problems myself when I first discovered the PUA on teh Interwebz, because I was an agnostic hedonist that had already lived a life of fornication and debauchery, as a teenager until getting married in my mid-20's. In retrospect, I did get some good out of my earlier Churchian programming, as I had multiple opportunities to engage in adultery since getting married...but deep down, that particular sin was something I had been raised to believe is almost as serious as the sin of murder, so I never crossed that line. Even when I was at a point in life where my agnostic unbelief in God was at it's strongest, my ingrained brainwashing by my parents and Churchianity made me too scared to cross that particular line, despite having coming really close to it on several occasions.
Nevertheless, the Beatification of Betahood in my particular Churchian community, and growing up in a household in which my parents are faithfully but quite unhappily married, has had a profound influence on my life.
In short, the discovery of "Game" on teh Interwebz, gave me a systemic overview of the aspect of masculinity I didn't have, growing up in a house with a contentious, ball-busting Mother, and a pussy whipped, beta-fied Father ("I'm the head of my house, and I have my wife's permission to say so!").
I've written about this a lot before, so at this point, I must digress and say one thing - my Father gave me a lot of positive lessons in masculinity...just not in terms of relating to Women and the institution of marriage. The only dating advice and how to relate to girls he ever told me was to avoid the sin of fornication and save it for marriage. Needless to say, that was no help in getting any dates in high school. That being said...
Discovering "Game" was my game changer.
It gave me a language to describe and think about so many things I previously could not even name, let alone comprehend.
It provided a schema for grasping the larger concepts bereft in my emasculated upbringing. And ultimately, it has also eventually brought me around full circle into belief in the truth of the Gospel of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
For this, I have the degenerate scumbags, the cads, the God Awful P-U-A to thank. Oh promiscuous manwhores who proclaim your proficiency in fornication and adultery, it is your discussions and note-sharing on how to commit these debased sins of hedonistic nihilism by exploiting the fallen, sinful nature of women, that helped me come to understand the primary sin that has infiltrated and subverted Christianity in the West, the sin of IDOLATRY.
I believe that is the real subversion of Christian doctrine in so many Churches today - pedestalization of the pussy...which is really just another manifestation of the ancient, pagan religion of Goddess worship.
From this idolatry flows many other sins and corruption of faith and family.
Anytime a Preacher, Pastor, Elder or some other Churchian authority promotes the Female Imperative by exhorting the men to man up and marry
Any church that declares unchaste women "born again virgins," or any particular woman is excused and accepted by a church and it's congregation for destroying her family via frivorce, or preaches mutual submission by husbands to their wives or any other translation of Ephesians 5:22 that undermines a Husbands Patriarchal authority in the home, is a church laying it's offerings on the altar of that ancient, pagan goddess bitch.
Without discovering the red pill of game, I doubt I ever would have came to this realization and recognize this idolatry for what it is, nor broken free from it's ritualistic worship. And I'm not the only one.
As Free Northerner testified in his post today:
But game advice gave me something to latch onto. It gave me practical steps I could take to improve myself. Was it a placebo? Possibly. But some of it was real. (The simple advice to not follow around a girl you like like a love-sick puppy alone was worth its weight in gold).
It was something practical I could do to improve myself and become better at social interactions with.
Roissy, Roosh, et al. may be self-professed degenerate scum but what is Zippy* providing?
This is the problem. What are the Christian man’s alternatives?
Seems like Free Northerner keeps going back in forth on his belief in the efficacy and usefulness of this topic of "Game" as a Christian believer. He has come to the point of: If not Game, then what?
Cane Caldo responded with some thought provoking comments:
What do you have to do with me? If you want my help, then you should beseech my help. It won’t encourage me to help if you threaten to take yourself hostage. It is a father’s job to teach manliness. I’m not your father. I don’t owe you patrimony.The Idolatry of Goddess worship is the religion of our Brave New World Order.
One of the first casualties of this reversion to paganism, is Patrimony. The transmission of masculinity from Father to Son. While this is much more transparent in observing the phenomena of divorce, single motherhood and all of the other results of our Brave New World sexual morality, critical aspects of Patrimony have also been lost in the two parent home of nominal Christians, due to the idolatry of the Pedestalized Pussy.
Is it any wonder why so many Men are lost, and fail to achieve that which they want so badly? To marry young, virginal women who share their faith in the Patriarchal religion of Jesus Christ, and create families in faith and obedience to God?
The crippling of Patrimony through Idolatry of the Goddess has left a host of men in our current age, searching for answers to questions they don't even know how to ask in the first place.
But the debased, promiscuous cads and their note-sharing on how to engage in seduction to indulge in fornication held up the mirror for many of us to the reflection of truth of the fallen nature of women and her base sexual desires.
Coming back to Cane Caldo's answer for a moment:
Having said that: It’s outrageously stupid to vomit out that I haven’t provided any advice on how to portray manliness, how to handle women, or how to attract women. I have given more patrimony than I owed already! There are volumes here and more volumes in the comments of others blogs. What I haven’t provided you with is the trappings of a system.
That’s what you want: a system. Why? Because you’re a nerd who likes and responds to systems and lists. While all sorts of good engineering is a result of good systems, living life is not. Life isn’t a system. Women aren’t a system. Marriage isn’t a system. Being a man, living a good life, and being married to a good wife, then, isn’t about following a system. It’s about living artfully. That’s why nominal Christians who “find” their answers in the Men’s Sphere bleat and repeat: “But, but, but…the Bible doesn’t teach how to attract and handle women!” Yes it does, but you can’t recognize it because you’re deliberately ignoring art while you delve for a system.
In my opinion, Cane is both right and wrong here, I'll get to that in a moment.
These are all arts, and arts can’t be codified into systems.
Another of the many confusions surrounding Game. It seems like–and is sold as–a system, but it can’t actually be learned except by doing. Those things are called arts.
On this aspect, I agree: "Game" is an art, and like any other art, they cannot be learned, let alone mastered, except by doing. Where I say Cane is wrong, is that art, cannot be codified into systems. As humans, we can and do codify artistic practice in a wide variety of endeavors.
You want to learn how to paint? You go to art class where you learn and practice a variety of different brush strokes and blending of colors in a systematic fashion. You want to learn how to fight? You go to boxing or martial arts class and learn a number of drills and techniques in a systematic fashion. You want to learn how to play a musical instrument? Same thing, the systematic study to develop the skills and techniques so you can learn how to practice the art.
But systematic study of an art form is not the only means of an artist developing the skills and abilities to practice. Many artists are "naturals," raised under the tutelage and mentor in their chosen field. They learn by following the examples set before them, without a deliberate and systematic dissection of the various techniques and skills..."monkey see, monkey do."
Thanks to the socially engineered sexual and cultural revolutions, the transmission of modeled masculinity via Patrimony has been decimated. Many of us raised in the environment of crippled or non-existent Patrimony were never given the example to emulate. So the only other choice we do have, is to study and practice a systematic method to develop our own, individual expression of our chosen art form.
But like any systematic study of an art form, the study and practice of techniques is only a regimented means of developing a skill set and muscle memory to be able to move without thought.
The highly skilled painter doesn't consciously think about every particular brush stroke technique while painting a portrait.
The champion Boxer doesn't think about the angles and forms of his 3 punch combination he used to knockout his opponent, he saw an opening and let it flow.
The master PUA doesn't think about his posture, demeanor, choice of words or witty banter while seducing a woman.
These are all examples of practitioners who put in the DOING of continual practice of all the assorted techniques to the point of ritual, all to achieve the ingrained programming that doesn't require conscious, deliberate thought to execute.
To move without thought. The thoughtless expression of effort and technique, through the development by practice.
Like any other art form, some people will have the natural talent to develop their skills faster than others. Some may get it right away, others may have to struggle mightily and practice doggedly with determination over a long span of time, to develop the necessary skills. But ALL who wish to practice an art, any art, whether they learn it systematically or by emulation of a mentor, must learn by doing.
27 comments:
it wasn't until i found the Sphere and began posting openly and FORCING myself to approach did i really began to realize how true it all is.
your "red pill" posts really gave me a lot of good insight.
you can lead a horse to water….
Keoni:
"The idolatry of Goddess Worship is the religion of our Brave New World Order."
It's also the whole point of 'Game'. The only purpose of Game is teach men how to accommodate themselves to feminized females.
"But the debased promiscuous cads and their note-sharing on how to engage in seduction...held up the mirror for many of us to the reflection of truth of the fallen nature of women and her base sexual desires."
No it didn't. It gave men a distorted caricature of womanhood because it's based on the warped values of a feminist culture. The promiscuous cads---like any other dysfunctional thugs---appeal to the modern 'liberated' female precisely because of that debasement and promiscuity.
If anybody doubts that, they should visit some non-feminist countries and see how receptive REAL women are to being treated like whores.
"Game is an art, like any other art."
Also wrong---art is something constructive and worthwhile: something that contributes the betterment of humanity. Game doesn't do this: it only teaches men to submit the yoke of feminism and pretend that they are 'in charge.'
danny, true. "Doing" is how you come to "being."
lolzolzolz
I'm very familiar with your stance and arguments on this topic, Eric. We'll just have to agree to disagree here.
I'll just say this: I certainly do not pretend I'm "in charge" of my home. Before I figured out this "game" thing, my wife's hamster was in charge of my home, and that almost ended in disaster. Believe me, I learned this thing the hard way. No matter what arguments you may raise with me, it's simply not going to convince me that my personal experiences are somehow wrong.
Great post. I thought it was going to be more along the lines of Captain Capitalism's "Enjoying the decline," where you would be advocating taking as many government benefits as possible, but I enjoyed it nonetheless. I laugh at the criticism of these Churchian women. It's so true, they are ridiculous with their self-serving baloney they fling around.
I left the U.S.S.A. Only going back to take my girl to Hawaii. I've always wanted to go. I keep holding off though because I'm worried the TSA is going to grope us. I don't want those perverts touching her. I don't want to go through those radiation scanners either. Sigh...Land of the free my ass.
"You want to learn how to paint? You go to art class where you learn and practice a variety of different brush strokes and blending of colors in a systematic fashion. You want to learn how to fight? You go to boxing or martial arts class and learn a number of drills and techniques in a systematic fashion.
I think we agree. You have to go to art class. I didn't say they can't be learned; I said you can't learn them by reading blogs or a book.
This isn't even an area of disagreement between myself and those who profess Game.
Good post. Thank you.
Churches refuse to teach the "difficult, hard" Bible passages about men, women, dominance, submission, bearing children, keeping house, divorce & remarriage, etc..
Bee
Keoni,
You do realize that this is pretty much what Proverbs does? A book, interestingly, that is NOT preached, with all the bits about following a foriegn or strange woman will lead to destruction.
And your analysis is spot on. Masculinity used to be learned by apprenticeship: so, by the way, did being a lady.
The consequences, of course, are being discussed at SSM's, Cane's Dalrocks and even my place lately.
Because us with sons need to teach them how to subvert the femispace and become men, not limp wristed hipsters.
I think we agree. You have to go to art class. I didn't say they can't be learned; I said you can't learn them by reading blogs or a book.
We agree on this much - whether you go to class or read about it in a book on the web, you still have to DO. Your specific counter-argument you gave to Free Northerner was that he was looking for a system and that you can't codify a system out of art.
I think, once again, we're simply disagreeing on semantics, but really the substance.
@ Chris - Because us with sons need to teach them how to subvert the femispace and become men, not limp wristed hipsters.
Amen.
I think, once again, we're simply disagreeing on semantics, but really the substance.
EDIT - I meant "...not really the substance."
Very compelling post; however, I do often wonder how a religion whose founder explicitly frustrates every masculine impulse and presents the Mother of God as ever virgin can be considered patriarchal.
Keoni,
Welcome back to Jesus Christ. You have completed the journey.
Bee
With all due respect to my RCC Red-Pillers, I liken the so-called "Christian manosphere" to a Reformation of sorts.
The problem isn't that the Bible doesn't address the issues of marriage and how husband and wife should relate to each other in practice. Rather, it has been abandoned and rationalized away in favor of a more palatable, "world-friendly" system.
When the word "submission" is either spit upon or laughed at lightly as something as outdated as a telephone party line, reformation is in order. When the message to men to avoid certain types of women is not taught and/or completely ignored, reformation is in order.
The message is there in the Scriptures, clearly. It just needs to be recovered, embraced, and taught. In practice it will look wildly counter-cultural, even in so-called "Bible-believing, evangelical" churches that deny they have capitulated to Western feminism (I can't wait to see the reactions when I get married and my wife comes to Sunday worship with a head covering!) Whether it is taught from the pulpit or not, it must be spoken of among ourselves and taught in our homes to our children.
Martin Luther stated that the church must always be reforming ("semper reformanda") because of our inclination to stray from God's self-revelation and to capitulate to the larger culture in various ways. So, Red-Pill Christians, let's keep our nose to the grindstone of reformation.
The Bible gives advice that is good during any point in history. We as humans haven't changed much at all...it is the world that has changed.
Game is a system or bits of advice meant to explain what is going on during THIS particular point in history. Are we aware of another time where feminism was like this, the propaganda was in such full force...or another time where hormonal birth control was in such rampant use?
The "wrongness" of the churches is the worst part. While Cane is correct that the Bible has all sorts of lessons about the fallen nature of women and how to behave, the churches don't teach that.
The teach women as the "spiritual head of the household" I have heard that phrase in catholic and protestant churches a like.
It is an abomination. They are apostate.
Church takes a person farther from God, not closer.
"I do often wonder how a religion whose founder explicitly frustrates every masculine impulse and presents the Mother of God as ever virgin can be considered patriarchal."
Are you talking about Jesus, who beat people with a whip, or St. Paul, who said sissies and effeminates would not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven?
Of all the articles I have read by you, this is the hammer that hit the nail on the head.
As a "natural" musician, (child prodigy type, yada yada) I have been surrounded my entire life by "dot readers". (the equivalent of "system learners") To them, music is a series of dots on a page, or following note for note a guitar tab, or a youtube video (place hand on this fret, play here for your favorite song) But when you ask them to just play what they heard or to orchestrate the entire piece or instantly recall what they heard, or to play with 'feel'....they fall like dominoes. They ask over and over again, "how do you do this? "How do you do that?".... I spend most of my professional career wasting my time showing than playing. It USED to be something I liked to do. Now, after forty years of this, they are a pain in my royal ass. The funny thing is, if I DON'T spoon feed every one of them, they like to pretend that I'M the problem.
"Game" for me is that very much like that. The equivalent would be the scene in Amadeus when the Emperor (who was tone deaf) says to Amadeus that his Opera would be perfect if he just took out a few notes.... To which Mozart replied "Which notes did you have in mind, sire"??
Keep it up... This was one of your best.
Congratulations on your so called red-pill birth. You are now fully a woman whose 'desire' is to your wife, and her pussy rules over you. By agreeing that sex is the most important aspect of relationship, you reinforce the feminized culture. Such a point of view does not come from God. You have made yourself the foolish young man without 'heart' following the 'strange woman', even if it is your wife. Wisdom is at every corner, calling you to better things. Pussy is nowhere near the top of the list.
One of the major themes of feminism is that whatever a girl finds to be the path of least resistance is "right for her" and nobody should be allowed to suggest that there's a better way. All you're supposed to do is validate her. Just keep telling her it's everybody's fault but hers that her life is a (perfectly predictable) mess.
The feminists are idiots, but they're just women and you can't expect them to be as strong as men.
That's their excuse. It's s piss-poor one.
But what's your excuse, Bobbye?
The most important thing in a relationship is male leadership (which is an improvable skill, whether or not that fact makes Cane Caldo and Mr Natural Musician Royal Ass feel as special as they wish they were). It's a necessary condition for domestic harmony, sex, and much else.
Bobbye, you've never been in a healthy relationship. You know nothing about it. Sit down and shut up. It's time for you to listen to men who have been there and done that.
And it's time for Caldo to quit selling feminist-style unearned validation to these damaged men. They do not need to be encouraged to retreat into their pain and give up.
The shorter Cane Caldo: "Better you than me, loser." Ditto Wallace and the rest of the Crab Bucket Gang. If lying to men who need the truth makes you feel "manly", you have the soul of a woman. "You'd look sooo cute with a pixie cut" -- said the desperate dumpy girl to her rival.
I've been a Catholic my whole life so I only saw things one way. This actually can be a form of blindness. It took those degenerate cads to show me life in another way and cement my faith in Jesus. Look at the parable of how the the lost son and the righteous son reacted to their father as an example.
Game is not my gospel...it is just a thing that is available that I can choose to use or not. What it did was make the Gospel much clearer.
Seek truth...not the vagina.
Let's remember how this started: Caldo says men should learn game only from the Bible, because it's an art that can't be learned or taught, like painting (which is taught and learned).
That's preposterous and pernicious nonsense in multiple interrelated ways. Everything since then has been Caldo throwing out distractions, changing the subject, contradicting himself, and racing the goalposts around the field to avoid having to back down from an utterly indefensible position.
First he says it's all in the Bible, easy to find. Then he says OK, it isn't, but nobody needs a wife anyway.
His position, in effect, adds up to "learn nothing, only do what comes naturally".
That's not a fit creed for men, not even for women. It's not even fit for dogs or cats. It certainly is not Christian.
@Mr. Music Ass,
List the successful records you've made or admit you're an internet braggart.
Most musicians I've known are amateur rock guys, who can improvise and jam well enough for the whole band to enjoy themselves. They've taken lessons and benefitted a lot from it. Formally trained musicians are a joke, sure. But you don't have to be a great "virtuoso" to lead in your marriage. It's not Carnegie Hall. You need to be good enough to keep the groove together. Damn near anybody can learn that. You don't need to be Casanova to get a girl. You need to know how not to screw it up.
All either of you two want to do is keep turning the subject back to how great you want everybody to think you are. Stroke your ego if you must, but do it in private and flush the kleenex when you're done. Don't show it to the world.
Good stuff, Keoni. The churches are full of idols ready to be toppled. We are commanded to tear down the Asherah poles, drive out the idolaters, and to stay out of congregations who refuse to obey God and to teach his commandments.
Light 'em up. Welcome to the Reformation of Men.
What I found, for myself, was a similar path, but from a slightly different angle. I grew up Agnostic (nominally Protestant) to Hippy parents. Ergo, I haven't seen much of the inside of Churches, being there far more often shooting a wedding than attending myself.
Having spent a long time in the MRM and growing bored with the whole infighting thing, I started watching Alex Jones on You Tube. And RT. And AMTV. Funny how Google News barely mentioned most of the stuff I KNEW was happening...
Of course, in You Tube if you watch Alex Jones, the sidebar has links to tons of Biblical Prophecy videos. Which, being a curious guy, I explored.
I've always been more or less curious about the Supernatural, Religion, the Bible, and all that stuff. I've never seen a contradiction between Science and Religion outside of interpretation of 'facts' based on Dogma (on both sides). And I don't discount Conspiracy Theory just because it sounds too crazy to be true.
Out of that, I have become 100% convinced, on emotional as well as logical levels, that the Bible is Truth, that Jesus Christ really did and does exist and did the things described, and did them for the reasons He said He did them for.
When I was a kid, the very idea of Christianity being mocked was so alien, I basically dismissed the Bible (or at least Revelations) out of hand. Beheaded? No way in Hell.
Now, we see Christians throughout the Middle East being beheaded, using the exact same 'justification' detailed in a book written 2000+ years ago.
I won't get into all of the stuff I think connects, but there is one concept I would like to throw out there for the more Scholarly among us.
I watched a video in which it was posited the Whore of Babylon referred to in the Bible, is Islam, being a descendant Religion of the original Tower of Babel.
This 'false religion' is a dualistic one, with a god and goddess figure, the deities klnown throughout the ages as Baal/Ashteroth, Osiris/Isis, Apollo/Diana, etc. Jere's the link to the vid, it's interesting...
http://youtu.be/uY20IFaWlsQ
Anyway, I don't think it's an accident that Feminism has adopted the Ankh (the symbol of Isis) as one of their main symbols, nor is their similarity to Shariah Law in outlook.
Taken separately it's all a bunch of hogwash. Put it together, though, and a lot of really outlandish things are happening right before our eyes.
@ Steve Baker: Feminism is the woman on the pedestal; that is all it is. Anything else that one might think it is is just smoke and mirrors, deception. Why is the woman elevated? So that she is prominently seen so that she may be serviced. And what does game teach except how a man may better service the woman by giving to her her true heart's desire? Never been any good at sitting down and shutting up. Why would anyone tell another debater to do that?
@Bobby
Feminism is the woman getting the power over men that every woman since Eve *thought* she wanted. But when they get it, they hate it. They are never happy unless they are well ruled. Sluts are often too damaged to take well to it with one man for too long, but even for those broken and damaged ones, it's still the only thing that gives them any peace at all.
Women *need* to be led. There's a good book cslled the Bible that covers that, though it's pretty vague about the how-to end of the business.
Ruling a woman is the opposite of feminism. Making a woman happy is the opposite of feminism. Feminism is women trying to take the male role. Feminism is about denying them what they need, and substituting what they think they want. Feminism is retarded, childish nonsense.
The problem with feminism is not that it makes women happy -- it doesn't. The problem is that it makes both men and women miserable.
Where did you learn about women? Nowhere. I suggest that you STFU because you are shooting your mouth off on a subject about which you have zero knowledge. Zero. You know nothing. No experience, no knowledge, nothing. Tell me about compiler optimizations next, then organic chemistry. Maybe Hopi verb tenses. You're equally well informed.
This is your masterpiece, Caldo: A dating expert who's never even held a girl's hand.
Baker:
I like the way you Gamecocks reflexively descend into feminist Shaming Language. It shows your true colors as pro-feminists.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwwHk3MymkA&feature
"The PUA/Gamer Community is grounded in the oppositional binary of sexual winners vs. sexual losers...the grubby little secret is that PUAs are controlled by women. That is the only conclusion you can draw about men who make the pursuit of sexual power socially mandatory."
good post - what do you think about mormonism, which strongly emphasizes the traditional gender roles with the father being the head of the family?
"We agree on this much - whether you go to class or read about it in a book on the web, you still have to DO. Your specific counter-argument you gave to Free Northerner was that he was looking for a system and that you can't codify a system out of art."
Keoni,
I would say that it is a mix of both. Adam Lyon's has a book called Attraction Explained that does a pretty decent job of laying out the basics. Ultimately, I can tell you only one thing. Any man on the internet who tells you this stuff doesn't work is a man who lacks the ability to get up and try. I have taught over 20 men this stuff and have literally stopped posting anywhere because I find it a waste of time. Men learn by action and I can't take them out and hold their hands, so they just never bother to get off their butts and go do something. Game is real and many of the men I have taught it to have seen their Christian walks grow by leaps and bounds. Go check out Adams book. You can't teach it precisely to every man, because we are all different, but the basics are the same for everyone.
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