Monday, December 30, 2013

Imputed Income Trap





Four years and three months ago, regular Roissy in D.C. comment contributor going by the handle of  Welmer, started The Spearhead. Many of us regular Roissy in D.C. commenter's and bloggers answered Welmer's initial call for contributors and helped him to establish The Spearhead as one of the central hubs of what was at that time, the early stages of the emergence of what we now know of today as the "manosphere" or "androsphere."

Since that time, Welmer decided to emerge from anonymity and start writing, editing and publishing all of The Spearhead's content under his real name, William Price. Many of us regular contributors and commenter's at The Spearhead, just call him Bill.

Since it's founding, Bill has written approximately 1340+ blog posts at The Spearhead,  generating almost 4+ years of near daily content, and many of those posts dealt extensively about the many personal details and circumstances of his life that motivated and inspired him to start and maintain The Spearhead.

The man is tireless and dedicated, and he's certainly played a huge part in raising awareness and helping others avoid or deal with the corrupted family court system that has subverted Fatherhood and the Patriarchal structure of our declining civilization.

He's never gone more than a few days at a time without at least posting a quick update or comment as to why he may be taking short breaks from writing and publishing content. But now it's been 23 days and counting since he's posted or commented at The Spearhead or anywhere else for that matter.

He did give an update on December 5th, that may possibly explain what has happened to him:

Hi folks, I’ve been forced to take something of an extended delay past the holiday due to circumstance. Unfortunately, problems from divorce do not just go away after it’s over, and mine have once again caught up to me. In short, I’m in trouble with DCS (child support), and this time it’s pretty serious. This is because I was unemployed and had my income imputed on divorce (this means that they force you to pay at a previous income whether you have it or not), which led to accumulation of arrears. If you haven’t read it before, here’s the background on the situation. I was working it down for a couple years, but things have dried up lately, and I have to deal with it immediately if I want to see my kids for the holidays and stay out of the King County hotel.

Hopefully, I can come up with enough to do that and will be back to focusing on writing again soon. All in all, it’s just another day in the life of millions of non-custodial fathers, so it isn’t the end of the world. But it still sucks.

Looks like Bill got an indefinite check-in to the King County Hotel for arrears due to imputed income requirements and unemployment. I have no way of verifying this, but this long of a break of any activity at The Spearhead by Bill is highly unusual.

I can only deduce that unfortunately it appears the Title IV-D Family Destroyer Borg has gotten a hold of him and giving him some more of the truth, justice and the 'murican way that all men who are Fathers are entitled to, here in the land of the fee and home of the slaves.

But in the eyes of mainstream society, this is just due justice being meted out to a known criminal, guilty of the crime of being a DEADBEAT DAD.

It’s fairly taboo for guys to open up about how they end up in child support arrears, because so many of us still harbor old-fashioned ideas about our duty to provide for our family, whether it’s possible or not. In fact, it’s a huge source of shame for a lot of men, and there isn’t much in the way of pity out there, so the stories aren’t often told.

Well, I figure I ought to break the ice in this regard, as I am currently in arrears, and let people – young men in particular – know how it can happen.

Young men contemplating marriage in today's Brave New World Order, pay attention.

As is often the case, separation and divorce were a shock to me. I saw it coming out of the corner of my eye, and was resigned to it in a way, but like the typical man I was in deep denial and avoidance. When my ex finally ran off to begin her affair with the then-married man she now lives with in British Columbia together with my children, I was pretty much left prostrate. It turns out the event had been planned, and her mother was involved. Unfortunately, I had fostered a friendship between my boss and my ex-wife’s family after obtaining a job for my ex’s sister, and my ex mother in law used this relationship to my ex’s advantage, essentially cutting me off from employment at exactly the point my ex left me. She would later tell my own mother that she felt justified in this tactic, because “it was war.” Of course, for me it was more like Pearl Harbor, where you don’t know it’s war until the bombs are falling right on top of you, but people have all sorts of justifications for whatever they do.

Note the beginnings of this entire debacle of gross injustice at the hands of the law. His wife took his kids and left the country to start an affair with another married man. Remember folks...

No Fault Divorce = His-Fault Divorce.

This was the beginnings of the chain events that have now most likely ended up with Bill being incarcerated in the King County lock up.

The rest of Bill's sad recounting of the events of his Divorce are the increasingly common experiences we in the MAndrosphere are all familiar with... Father's whose wives decide to blow up their families for cash and prizes because they are unhaaaapppppyy. False police reports of child abuse. Loss of visitation with his children during proceedings, and loss of his job during our current Great Depression 2.0 economy. Faced with the prospects of losing everything in the final adjudication of the Divorce, Bill eventually decided to accept a deal from his Ex-Wife's parasitic feeder on familial destruction attorney:

I was shattered, broken, beaten down. An attorney friend suggested I go to trial pro se, since I couldn’t get a worse deal either way, and he was probably right, but I simply couldn’t handle it — I was spent. About this time my ex’s attorney approached me with what looked like a reasonable parenting plan with decent time with the kids and a minimal amount of conditions. I would have to attend a ten-hour parenting class (so would my ex) and sixteen hours of anger management, and there would be no supervised visitation following the parenting class. There was only one catch — I would be imputed with income I didn’t have and pay more child support than I could afford. Thinking of the alternative, which could mean six months of an expensive domestic violence program that would mark me as admitting guilt for something I never did and possibly compromise my parenting time permanently, I signed.

Presented such a choice, Bill did the only thing he could do to try and maintain some sort of normal contact with his children and make the best of his situation. He seemed to have lasted quite awhile in scraping enough money to meet his court ordered payment schedule, but eventually the imputed income requirements put him into arrears and making him classified now as a "Deadbeat Dad."

You know what....I actually have a picture of Bill committing the horrible crime for what he is most likely sitting in jail for at this very moment. Yep...a picture of him caught in the act, committing a most heinous crime against society:




Oh the horror.

Good thing we have a justice system that brings such deviant violators of the law to swift and merciful justice!

Deadbeats everywhere, look out!

You've been identified, and classified and you WILL be brought to justice.

By virtue of marrying and having children in today's Brave New World Order, you are now officially eligible to join the ranks of all the other peons called "deadbeat dads." All that needs happen is your wife to deem you no longer fit to share her domestic living space, and you too will become just another American peon.

What's a peon, you ask? Go to wiki and look up the term "peonage."

Modern day child support laws and the entire Family Court System, is nothing more than 21st century peonage.

Our current child support system in the USSA Inc., is a travesty of justice and a clear abrogation of the 13th amendment of the Constitutions abolition of involuntary servitude.

But remember, only Men are eligible to become Imputed Income Peons. As commenter Pugs Fugly noted:

And yet….my ex-wife hasn’t paid a dime in over a year, I’m talking 11K in arrears, and the state does nothing.

They talk a great deal; the people I have to deal with have explained that revoking her license or issuing a warrant for her arrest are only considered as a “last resort” but they won’t explain or even hint when we’ll finally get to that point.

To which Bill responded in one of his last comments made at The Spearhead:

That’s typical according to attorneys I’ve spoken with. 20k in arrears, refuses to pay a dime, and not even a judge will do a thing about it. Took me only two months before the threats started rolling in, and that was at the very beginning!

Well, 11 more years of this to go…


Bill, our prayers our with you. May you emerge from your State ordered trials and tribulations stronger than before.

 http://www.blogblog.com/scribe/divider.gif


UPDATE: Well, it appears Bill was just taking some time offline to deal with a hectic holiday schedule and family matters, and not in jail for child support arrears. That's certainly good news.

Glad to have him back in business over at the Spearhead.

39 comments:

Seth Reynard said...

tried to donate. the link did not work.

Keoni Galt said...

Thanks for the heads up, Seth. Having never used paypal before, I thought I could just hyperlink the page you get when you click on the donate button over at The Spearhead...

Now I know, that doesn't work.

LongLostFriend said...

I made a contribution myself from the link on Bill's site, and it went through.

Having had my own child support and legal issues with my ex-wife, I have been considering ways that we in the manosphere can financially help those fathers fight the good fight against this kind of state-sponsored sodomy.

One thing I have been kicking around in my head is setting up a website to enable Red Pill men to financially assist those facing mounting legal bills or child support arrearages. Rather than setting it up as some sort of 501(c)3 thing that the government can meddle in, it would merely serve as a sounding board in which men could tell their stories, and (once vetted), could provide a Paypal address (or, better yet, a Bitcoin address) to which we could directly send funds. That way, there would be no money directly flowing through the website and no accounting that I would have to keep myself.

Is anyone aware of anything that exists like that now? When I was unemployed for nine months during my divorce, I think that such a service might have made a significant impact in my own life.

livefearless said...

Sunshine Mary mentions W.F. Price many times here: http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2013/10/28/is-there-a-shortage-of-single-fathers/

SSM explains that she's surprised at his marriage, and further surprise about W.F. Price getting married to a certain uber successful lady.

Then, in October, W.F. Price has been written about in THE DAILY BEAST which is owned by Barry Diller's company IAC/InterActive Corp http://wp.me/P3P5mL-dE

"Bill has written approximately 1340+ blog posts at The Spearhead, generating almost 4+ years of near daily content"
ONE MAN has written 1340 posts??? Do you know W.F. Price, as in, you're real life buddies?
If so, let it be known. If not, let's talk about the family in the Dreamworks movie "The Croods" as if they are real.

A lot of those are long yet and so articulate that, in the world I understand, it takes more than a village, it takes an army of talented writers that channel inspired beauty through the medium into words and sound. Think of the best melodies and rifts in music... magical talent creates the most enlightening content that draws people in niches in.
http://wp.me/p3P5mL-dC

IAC/InterActiveCorp (Barry Diller) more than 50 brands including Match dot com and The Daily Beast (which has written about W.F. Price)
Also Tinder (app), Urbanspoon and Vimeo

Keoni Galt said...

Livefearless, I've never personally met Bill, but I've exchanged more than a few emails with him over the years.


ONE MAN has written 1340 posts?

He's written that many posts over 4 years and 3 months. Not all are substantive, proof read and edited posts either. A lot of them are quickies, updates, and one or two paragraph posts as well.

I've interacted with him enough in private correspondence and read every single thing he's ever written to not doubt his verisimilitude and veracity.

You think that being a part of a "MRM" article in the Daily Beast is enough to suspect him being a fraud?

Eric said...

Keoni:
As you know, I've had some issues with Price lately, but I hope he hasn't gotten caught in the maw of that system either.

I live in the same area as he does and checked online for city and county records---there was no indication (at least not yet) that he's being 'detained' at least not locally. However, Washington does have an extradition provision if the ex-wife lives out-of-state.

FYI, I posted a little more about Washington State laws &c. on the comments section here:

http://www.theantifeminist.com/best-wishes-to-w-f-price-of-the-spearhead/

That blog has all comments on moderation, so the comment might not post until later tonight.

Keoni Galt said...

Well Eric, seems like you've "had some issues" with everyone in the 'sphere at one time or another...lol

Thanks for the info.

Remo said...

Here is the solution, the only solution. Get out. Leave the U.S. and never look back. Renew your passport, get extra pages added, and go teach English or whatever you can somewhere else. You'll have 10 years to get new citizenship. Plan accordingly. Get several copies (and I mean 10-20) of EVERY University degree, birth certificate, etc. You will need those for apostille. If you can start the process before you ditch the witch so much the better.

You will NEVER find justice, sympathy, or any mercy dealing with the current system. It is evil and designed to do what its doing. Don't bother trying to do things with lawyers or courts, that is a sucker bet, and its designed to feed you hope while delivering nothing and further draining your life away. The game is rigged, you cannot win. The only winning move is not to play. 3 choices ultimately: you are a slave, you are homeless/in jail, you are free. Pick one and don't whimper and whine that you CAAAAAAANNNNT because... fuck off. You can. Yes I'm sure you're dad is sick, mother needs you, your cat would miss you, whatever. You are a slave. A slaves family if they loved him would care about his freedom FIRST, not last, FIRST. Make the move and leave. I did so I know of what I speak and YES it cost me everything but... I am free. That is the payoff. Make your choice.

ironthumb michaelangelo said...

We have included this one in our latest Testosterone poisoning linkage, Happy new year!

Anonymous said...

I think it's time for an underground railroad. I used to know of a guy who drove used buses down to panama every couple of years to be sold. Maybe he'd take some help.

Acksiom said...

It's too bad he still thinks circumcision is a parent's right, and therefore:

No; I already gave at the orifice.

DW3 said...

I've never commented here, but have your page bookmarked to read regularly. I just wanted to stop by to commend you for looking out for Bill.

I know all too well how hard it is to keep up with payments based on imputed income. My divorce has me thanking God every day for having parents who can afford to help me out, as I'm well aware that many in my situation would give an arm and a leg to have a mother's basement to live in.

I hope Bill is OK.

LiveFearless said...

Keoni I commend you too. You're a super articulate and writer, and your life choices are admirable. It takes some 'doing' for me to be able to eat in the specific healthy ways that you and I do.

No... an article about him in "The Daily Beast" does not make anyone a fraud. It's admirable actually. I am just pointing out that the CCI has unlimited resources to fund the ones that have channeled talent, to make them as famous as they wish. John Hammond explains: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2GHXKYKKi4 They can build a persona around them... one that has photos from real life and sometimes... years of tweets, posts, internet history (for YEARS) that's social proof of a meteoric rise. Has anyone met Leif Erikson of the 'Jenny Erikson' narrative?

It's easy to communicate with them since the teams that manage the reputation of these persona are better than intelligent, talented, etc. I will not bother to explain it, you wouldn't believe me if I told you. to

Did his new wife exit?

http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2013/10/28/is-there-a-shortage-of-single-fathers/#comment-97245 That's a comment by SunshineMary in which she quotes the piece from The Daily Beast.

SSM: It was in that recent R. Tod Kelly interview for the Daily Beast, The Masculine Mystique:

"R Tod Kelly" in The Daily Beast: "It is a balmy summer afternoon in Seattle as I sit down to share a pizza with W.F. Price and his new bride, Michelle.

Price runs his own MRM on-line magazine, The Spearhead, which both compliments and competes with AV4M.

Price is well known and respected throughout the MRM—and, in a twist that makes one want to phone a movie producer to pitch Hollywood’s next big RomCom, Michelle Price turns out to be that most unexpected of matches for The Spearhead’s fiery publisher: an outspoken, self-described feminist.

“I’ve never said I’m not married,” says Price when I ask him how his readers are going to take the news that he has settled down into a happy domestic life with the enemy. “I think I’ve left it easy to read between the lines that I’m involved with a woman, even if I’ve never come out and said I’m married, so… who knows?”

I don’t think it’s surprising that he is remarried because he has never been overly anti-marriage. Mr. Price’s writings are usually well-reasoned, calm and without a lot of hyperbole, yet thoroughly anti-feminist. I think his strong stance against feminism is what makes his marriage to a feminist surprising to many of his readers. It’s sort of akin to how my readers might feel if I one day announced, “Oh, by the way, have I mentioned that I’m married to David Futrelle from Manboobz?” (I’m not married to David Futrelle, though, just to be clear.)"

Your post is thoughtful Keoni, it's just that in October RTK at TDB is writing about W.F. Price in paradise, and now... not exactly paradise.

Sundance said...

Man it really sucks for Price. Completely unfair. Which caused me to wonder what would happen if the shoe was on the other foot. I mean, what if it was the women with the high income and the man was a stay at home for the kids. Wouldn't the State come down on the side of the man? Or would he get screwed? I would think the state would side with the man, but I may be naive. Anybody?

Hell yes I am going to support the Spearhead.

SunDance

Matt Forney said...

This conspiracy theorizing is ridiculous.

Bill and I are friends in real life; I haven't seen in him in-person for a while (seeing as we live on opposite coasts), but we used to talk on the phone regularly. He's an honest, standup guy doing the best he can with what's he got. Jack Donovan can also vouch for Bill. Even if you don't believe us, you can verify Bill's existence for yourself just by Googling his name (turn up marriage records, his Facebook, resume etc.).

That said, Keoni is right that there is some cause for concern. I haven't spoken to Bill over the phone in a couple months, and a couple weeks ago I sent him a merry Christmas email that he didn't reply to, even though he normally would. Thing is, he's already been to hell and back with his divorce, so realistically, there's not much more the child support commissars can do to him.

As for Bill's "feminist" wife, I don't know her as well, but let me clear two things up for you:

1. She's Latvian.
2. She's very pretty and feminine.

In other words, by our standards, her "feminism" is a joke.

Keoni Galt said...

Thanks for clearing that up, Matt. I've never talked in person with Bill (nor you for that matter), but I've exchanged enough personal emails with you both to say with near certainty that you both are who you appear to be on the web.

This conspiracy theorizing is ridiculous.

Yes, ridiculous to speculate that Bill is a false, virtual personae....but it's certainly not ridiculous to point out that such things certainly do exist.

As I posted in my cognitive infiltration post, the US military actually had a request for proposals for a software management program posted on a job search board, requesting the development of a program to manage multiple identities with pictures and backstories to create believable profiles to engage in psy ops on teh Interwebz.

You and I both know there are false flag commenters and bloggers in the MAndrosphere, and I don't think it's outlandish for anyone to question just who and who is not on the up and up around here!

For all you know, I MYSELF might be one!

lozlzolzolzolzozl

Acksiom said...

>He's an honest, standup guy doing the best he can with what's he got.

Including what other people's sons have been forced to give him, but oh well -- who cares about the baby boys when a manosphere bro needs money and support, right?

Anonymous said...

if he's remarried then here's to bill fleeing the country and starting again.

sunshinemary said...

Good information about imputed income. Although it probably doesn't solve the CS problem entirely, this is part of why I believe Christians should avoid State-based "legal" marriage now, which has become an evil and corrupt institution, and enter only into Covenant marriages.

I hope Mr. Price is not in jail. I noticed the other day on Twitter that Roosh had tweeted this comment:

https://twitter.com/rooshv/status/417450164245516288

"There's concern about WF Price's (@spearheadmag) disappearance http://ow.ly/s8kEa But he made this recent tweet: http://ow.ly/s8kJb"

So perhaps he is not incarcerated?

sunshinemary said...

Holy Moley, I want to address this LiveFearless person:

I do not now nor have I ever shared your conspiracy theory. I am not even sure exactly what you are trying to say, frankly.

I respectfully ask that you stop mischaracterizing my harmless comment from Dalrock's in which I chuckled about Mr. Price being married to a feminist. It was clearly a light-hearted comment from me, meant to gently poke fun at how opposites attract. I have no reason to believe Mr. Price is anyone other than who he says he is. I respectfully request that you stop falsely implying that I have ever questioned Mr. Price's identity. I have not and I do not.

Eric said...

Forney:
There's definitely cause for concern. I've never met Price personally either, but as I mentioned above I do live in the same area. You'd really have to live in Seattle to understand how bad the political correctness and groupthink culture is out here. They go after controversial media personalities and others who go against the uber-leftist tide in public venues with a real vengeance.

There are radio talk-show hosts who've been driven off the air here and run out of town for going against the 'party line' (e.g. Mike Siegel). Tom Leykis got attacked and beaten up when he came to speak here. That's why I'm concerned for Price; these guys are extremists and they play dirty.

LiveFearless said...

@SunshineMary I had remembered your comment in which you quoted the post from The Daily Beast, so I chose to refer to it to give you credit for finding the post. I would not have found it since I do not consume the Beast. I'm sorry about your anger. Normally, I try to give attribution. If there's a next time, I'll skip giving credit to you for the find and just paste the source article instead.

The point was to show where R. Tod Kelly was writing from the perspective of being in the presence of W.F. Price and his bride. R Tod Kelly: "It is a balmy summer afternoon in Seattle as I sit down to share a pizza with W.F. Price and his new bride, Michelle."

SSM, Matt, Keoni: I haven't mentioned conspiracy theories. What are you talking about? I've never doubted that we've been on the moon.

I've been working here for a long time, and I find

The advanced science, art and technology requires the intelligence, talent and focus of a lot of individuals and entities. It requires financial resources. It often takes years to accomplish the intentions. It's like fire, it can be bring soothing warmth, kill germs and cook food. It can also cause damage. It is important that it be placed in the right hands.

That's why I'm still out here: To cause positive changes in the course of human events.

Donations are a great idea, especially in dire situations like the one explained in Keoni's post. Besides that, the writing is amazing, and anyone that puts the time in to write with such clarity should be paid. After all, the writers for The Daily Beast are paid.

W.F. Price is someone you've communicated with repeatedly. I hear you now. Point taken... The reason I pasted the content is related to the sentence that included "his new bride, Michelle" in The Daily Beast. Is she also reaching out for help on his behalf?

LiveFearless said...

@SunshineMary "I respectfully request that you stop falsely implying that I have ever questioned Mr. Price's identity."

I did not imply that you questioned his identity.

@Matt_Forney I haven't mentioned "feminist" here. That word was part of what was pasted in from this: http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2013/10/28/is-there-a-shortage-of-single-fathers/#comment-97245

Anonymous said...

Matt Forney, if you have a phone number for him, why not give it a ring?

Without knowing what state he's in, it makes it hard to know what support we can provide.

If we just donate to his Paypal link, we don't even know if he's in a situation to be able to access the funds. It might also be useful to get some facts to perhaps get his story out.

earl said...

It seems any contract the opposing lawyer wants you to sign is just like Satan giving you a contract for selling your soul.

You give up everything and get nothing in return.

That is the best way to think of the legal system...Satan offering you a contract.

Anonymous said...

But with Satan, he was probably offering you something in return

Anonymous said...

It saddens me greatly that I have not heard anything from mr price since his dire predictions early in December. I have donated several times to his site and I will continue to once I know he has access to it. If he is in jail and someone knows where I will send money there to his commisary account. in the meantime I will wait until I see a public post and either paypal donate or send him cash by mail.

I detest this country...I detest what they have done to mr price and his child and I detest how they have damaged my own children and my own relationship to my children. I will in my capacity help any dignified man caught int this trap that needs help.

Cultural_Expat

Eric said...

Keoni:

For a further update: I searched the archives from the 'Seattle Times for the week of December 7 and nothing came up. I don't think he's in Washington State.

Does anybody happen to know what state/city his ex-wife lives in? I could do a search to find out if he's being 'hosted' by LEOs there.

TheMaskAndRose said...

My deepest sorrows for Bill and his current situation. He is a much-needed voice in the Manosphere, having firsthand knowledge of the horrors of the Divorce / Family Court Complex while retaining a relatively moderate tone in his article.

Thanks for the update Keoni, and also for adding me to your blogroll. I consider it a huge honor, as I read your blog regularly and love the way your mind works.

Hopefully Mr. Price is familiar with Ho 'Oponopono and utilizes it during a time when it could really help him out.

Mahalo and Ahui Ho,

MaskandRose

Anonymous said...

I have been thinking that what if men just abandoned their children and said screw it? I though about this because these women seem to want us to fight for the kids and therein lies much of the dispute and problem. Combined with men refusing to pay CS it would create a whole mess of problems for the system (D industry) and for the ex wives.

Its crappy i know. But it may serve 2 purposes. One is it defunds the system. 2 is the women will not have the extra funds and will have to deal with their post divorced lives all alone. I guess a 3rd thing is that a man can rebuild his life and have new children if he chose to do so although I would recommend having ANY children in this present day.

Alte said...

As bad as the situation for men is here in Germany, America's human rights abuses make it look like the land of milk and honey.

Thanks for keeping us on the up-and-up, Keoni, and my prayers are with you both.

Keoni Galt said...

Hey look, it's an Alte sighting! I was wondering when you'd be surfing around these fringes of teh Interwebz again.... I trust the move to Germany has gone well and you and your family are doing better?

Happy new year!

LiveFearless said...

New posts in the name of W.F. Price have appeared on The Spearhead. Did you connect about the donations collected here?

Alte said...

Oh, I still read occasionally, but my life is so crazy-busy now that this is the first place I've commented at in forever. I just chat with the girls sometimes.

We're doing well enough. Settling in. Hubby has a good job, kids are in school, I'm working part-time and over-planned the rest of the time. Same ole, same ole, but this time auf Deutsch. :-)

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SavvyD said...

I’m sorry to hear of anyone falling on hard times. Most courts have a family law facilitator to assist with the basics of family law filings like support modifications when someone loses their job. There is alot of online help and many downloadable forms for filing in the courts from their own websites. And no, it’s not a point of pride to lapse on payments. It’s really easy to save yourself from deadbeat status. Being unemployed should have given him plenty of time to research what form to fill out and submit. The courts are generally unfriendly to pro pers (you can thank your local bar association for that BS) but it is possible to handle yourself well there and take care of your responsibilities.

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Maggie said...

I am Pugz Fugly ex wife. He is lying about everything. If you want my documentation on our case, happy to give it.

Maggie said...

I am Pugz Fugly ex wife. He is lying about everything. If you want my documentation on our case, happy to give it.