Thursday, September 3, 2009

MRA - Men's Rights AWARENESS

Many bloggers and other columnists and pundits like Glenn Sacks use the term MRA to mean Men's Rights Activists.

When I use the acronym MRA, I however mean something different...Men's Rights AWARENESS.

I don't believe "Activism" -- in the sense of fomenting a grass roots movement to build a groundswell of support to institute legal and cultural changes -- is ever going to realistically solve the problems many MRA/MGTOW bloggers have been writing about for years now. The feminist zeitgeist is too firmly entrenched into our mainstream inoperable cancer.

No, it is my firm contention that the only real and meaningful way in which the MRA blogosphere CAN effect real change, is on an individual level:


To raise awareness of the truth of the reality that we all live in.

To enable people to see things clearly, so that when they make goals and try to direct their lives towards achieving them, they do so knowing the full score so they can avoid many of the pitfalls our BraveNewWorldOrder has created to entrap us all in our deliberately distorted and contorted understanding of the gender roles and how they affect our lives.

MRA/MGTOW blogs gave me a complete understanding of just what the hell is going on in the system; the injustices of the divorce court industry and the true affect the feminist movement has had in socially engineering our modern dystopia.

PUA blogs gave me an understanding of the basic, primal nature of male/female gender roles.

Talleyrand at Seasons of Tumult and Discord wrote a post that perfectly encapsulates the essence of all the postings I have contributed at Roissy's with regards to "game" in a LTR/Marriage.

It is very well know what men find generally attractive in women: youth, health, and beauty. Despite attempts by our current tyrannical society (and it is tyrannical, it wants to so totally control the way people think while speaking in Orwellian terms of tolerance and inclusiveness) to repress men, this fact remains.

It is not well known what women are attracted to. There may be comments about them marrying up, or gold digging, but these just skim on the surface of reality. Men shy away from what women are attracted to because of the ugly truths found there.

Without a complete understanding of what attracts women, a man cannot guard against the Cads out there that will poach his mate. If he believes her words, and not her nature, he will lose. If he understands what drives his wife, or girlfriend, he can defend against the real threats that the naturals and the seducers pose.

Further, he can incorporate what attracts his wife into his own behavior to maintain her attraction to him. A wife that is attracted to her husband, is a wife that will love him. If she is not attracted to him, she will not love him and will hold him in contempt.

Learning what attracts a woman, does not mean becoming a serial seducer, anymore than the fact that a woman wearing makeup makes her promiscuous. A woman does specific things to make a man attracted to her. She spends time doing it.

As is so often pointed out in popular culture, a relationship takes work, yet so many men think that simply being themselves should be enough or they waste their energies doing the things that society says are romantic and expected of them. If men took all that time and money trying to buy a woman’s affection and instead used it to actually attract her both individuals would be happier.

A woman that is attracted to her partner, is a woman that stays married.

Well stated, Talleyrand...

...but I would also add a crucial point here: "game" also teaches men not only what behaviors attract women...but what behaviors also KILL attraction. Behaviors that she may not even be consciously aware of...nevertheless, I am convinced, become the basis for "I'm just not happy anymore" or "I just can't do this anymore" or "I'm not in love with you anymore," which in turn, of course, contributes to the modern American woman filing for divorce in the range of 70+ %.

Oh, and thanks to Alkibiades for commenting on my last posting, which lead me to finding your excellent blog.

To continue....I believe with the advent of the "Roissysphere," I think we are now witnessing a new phase in MRA...a merging of the two spheres - "game" theory and MRA into a cohesive and complete understanding of how unnatural our current socially engineered gender roles has played into the social decay and decline of civilization we are all currently living through.

These guys "get it" and have all taken the community discussions at Roissy's and generated a raft of interesting blogfodder to add to the debate in the MRA/PUA community. One of the most fascinating discussions has been the "Bio-cons" vs. the "So-cons" debate that was sparked by a few right wing, religious conservatives and their negative views and denunciations of "Game."

I tried my bit in that debate by commenting over at Anakin Niceguy's blog, but I failed to overcome his objections and point of view that Game is inherently bad and morally corrupt. While I disagree with him, I still find his blog to be a pretty good representation of how MGTOW is a more than justified approach to dealing with our modern feminist contorted cultural zeitgeist.

I believe this convergence of MRA/PUA blogs actually gives men a very real alternative to MGTOW.

To reiterate, I don't fault MGTOW for choosing to forsake relationships with women under the current cultural paradigm. But some MGTOW have steadfastly held to the idea that successful relationships with women is next to impossible. I don't believe so. If you DO want a wife and children so that you can create your own legacy through procreation, you DO have the resources to help guide you in giving you the best chance at building a successful marriage and family with a woman worthy of what is certainly a risky venture in today's BraveNewWorldOrder.

In closing, I'd like to recognize many of the "Roissysphere" blogs, such as In Mala Fide, Gucci Little Piggy, Novaseeker, Whiskey, Thursday, Dusk in Autumn, Welmer, The Beta Revolution, Alpha-Status,and Gantsquarry. They have all contributed their share of excellent insights into the overall debate of what I term the Men's Right's Awareness philosophy. I've been reading all of these aforementioned blogs for awhile now, and am glad to see a literal upwelling in the number of MRA focused blogs that have come out of the community of the increasingly popular comment section at Roissy's.

I also look forward to some of the more insightful Roissyshpere commenters like Obsidian and The Fifth Horsemen (Tood) either creating their own blogs or continuing to contribute to the comment sections of everyone else's blogs.

Keep up the good work, Men!


Jesse said...

Interesting post. As one who tends toward avoiding intentionally practicing Game* (which isn't hard since I possess little natural Game anyway), I thought it was a pretty balanced and informative take.

I disagree a little on the characterization of MGTOW though. I take the idea to imply men doing their own thing without regards to what society and its norms would say. To many that will imply forsaking female relationships to walk their own path and do their own thing. To many others it will imply boldly doing what they think is right in their relationships and marriage as well as the other spheres of life. So I don't see MGTOW as incompatible with marriage or otherwise serious relationships with women. It simply implies that a man knows who he is and what the world needs, and does his best to stand for those regardless of how others may react.

If I'm misinterpreting or misrepresenting your idea of MGTOW then I apologize. My thoughts upon reading the post are that you tend to view MGTOW and women as more separated than I do.

* For the record, I don't think Game is inherently bad, but as with any powerful tool, there are certainly some risks and temptations there that have to be acknowledged and confronted. I don't think the core strengths of Game (confidence, boldness, etc.) ought to be pursued simply for the sake of wooing women. Those are useful traits though, ones that we ought to work on simply because they make us better men. So Game overlaps a bit with what I think of as godly, masculine character--which is why it works I suspect.

ganttsquarry said...

Agree completely on a emphasis on awareness rather than activism. Can MRA's think of a single politician, at any level, that is openly supportive?

Even Libertarians have a few county commissioner seats around the country.

I think the Modern Whig Party has more open adherents to its agenda then MRAs do.

My main goal is for as many individual men as possible to learn about the dark parts of female nature, the legal inequities they face, and the best way to respond to these challenges.

If that's 10% great. If its 1% that's fine as well.

It goes without saying that I think Game is a great way, on a micro level, for men to respond. It's not a panacea and MGTOW is still an option, but men need all the tools they can get. I don't think Game will affect major social change, but if at the margins it can help a small percentage of men than I am all for it.

Thanks for mentioning me with longer running, and superior writers and thinkers. I've been reading them all for quite awhile and they have certainly influenced my thinking(including yourself). It's nice to see my small little enterprise included.

MarkyMark said...


As you know, I'm a MGTOW guy. Having done a cost/benefit analysis of women and relationships therewith, I don't see the reward being at all commensurate with the risk; I see too much risk and too little reward. Ergo, I'll do my thing, and life will be good...


Keoni Galt said...

Jesse, I get the MGTOW..I really do. That was more in the reference to more than a few heated debates I've had here with several MGTOW folks.

Mark, I fully get where you're coming from. I don't condemn or criticize you at all. I only wish to point out that for a young guy that has his eyes opened to the reality of our feminist distorted culture, there are options. Some people have argued quite vehemently here taht MGTOW is the ONLY way.

Yeah, never getting into a relationship is the safest means of avoiding the feminist court system...but then never leaving your house is the safest way from avoiding get hit by a car. Does that mean we should never leave the house?

For some men, it most certainly is a lifelong ambition to have a family. This where understanding of the topics delved into by the PUA community could definitely help men out like it has for me!

In any case, whether you are an MGTOWer or a PUA or just a guy trying to understand what the hell is going on, I think we can all agree that AWARENESS of reality IS the one thing we can all work towards.

Anakin Niceguy said...

I tried my bit in that debate by commenting over at Anakin Niceguy's blog, but I failed to overcome his objections and point of view that Game is inherently bad and morally corrupt. While I disagree with him, I still find his blog to be a pretty good representation of how MGTOW is a more than justified approach to dealing with our modern feminist contorted cultural zeitgeist.


The way you were defining "Game" was as something I could hardly take issue with. You'll have no disagreement with me over the basic concepts of self-determination, confidence, standing to women, etc. After going back and forth with Novaseeker and others, my disagreement with the conservative wing of the "Roissysphere" is not as marked as one might think. I was concerned with the assertion that Christians could adopt "Game" lock, stock, and barrel without discernment. I agree with you and others that there are relationship skills that men can benefit from in approaching women--relationship skills not necessarily taught by a feminized culture. However, I believe their also limitations to teaching relationship skills. My fear concerning the Roissysphere is the one you have concerning MGTOW--the dogmatism. I've some presumptuous statements about men needing sex and how MGTOW needs to get a clue in that regard.

MGTOW, as commentators have stated here, is not intrinsically about forsaking women. Indeed, I believe there are MGTOWers that champion "Game," even in its PUA sense. Because of my religious perspective, my beliefs impose limitations on my actions. Others will have to speak for themselves in that regard. A Christian implementation of MGTOW is not for everyone.

The Roissysphere seems to be saying things that many of us have said for years now. The edge or distinctive for the Roissyphere seems to be the emphasis on teaching men relationship skills (some of it in a conservative sense and some of it in a definite PUA sense). The potential weakness I see in the Roissysphere is making the relationship skills angle the hammer and everything else the nail. It's been a problem with the Seduction commmunity for a long time and why they and the MRA/MGTOW movements never really gelled together.

Talleyrand said...

Damn it, I was going to make a post about how a person can be "antiseductive." I will anyway.

I think both groups have been to narrow in the perspective. I disagree with Novaseeker and others that think there will never be effective change because of competition.

The feminists are not the majority of women, and there are women that actively oppose them, yet still their world view has been forced upon us.

It only takes the concerted effort of a small number of men to create a dynamic where the course of society is altered.

Beta Prime said...

Thanks for the shout out Keoni! I'm actually quite new to Game and Men's Rights so I'm still picking up on all the subtle distinctions between the various groups' philosophies. I started my blog as a defense of civilization as manifested by the coordination of 'betas'. There are so many guys out there who need a brotherhood, and need acknowledgment that their activities have greater purpose, and I think this part of the blogosphere trumpets those concepts in a focused way.

Elusive Wapiti said...

I consider myself a MGTOWer, yet still believe in marriage and have myself remarried after a quite unpleasant experience.

Anikin said it best...MGTOW isn't about foresaking women, nor is a Christian implementation of MGTOW for everyone. To me, MGTOW is merely a rejection of the cubbyhole that mainstream society has placed men in. We effect our own liberation movement by self-liberating ourselves from the cultural norms that attempt to bind us. A sort of "free your mind, your ass will follow" philosophy.

Jesse is right on when he says that there are some aspects of game that (a) are applicable to Christian guys, and (b) make us better men. I extend that with (c), makes for better relationships because our actions are based on truth and not on pretty lies.

RAMZPAUL said...

I also would not characterize MGTOW as avoiding women. You might be surprised how many of us MGTOW guys are in relationships and like women. We are just independent men that reject the feminist ideology. And unlike MRAs, we are not politically organized. We are just guys that learn and go our own way.

Guys that avoid women at all costs typically refer to themselves as “Ghosts”. Ghosts are just a subset under the MGTOW umbrella.

Keoni Galt said...

I get that about the MGTOW movement. I recognize there are plenty of folks that identify as MGTOW that are like EW and RMAZPAUL....and I concur wholeheartedly. Real Men always "Go There Own Way" and do not seek to follow the herd like mindless sheeple.

But I have encountered quite a few MGTOW guys who seem to almost revel in pure, unadulterated misogyny...and that the worst thing a man can do is get married, because ALL women are the same. Some of these guys don't even realize it, but they become the mirror image of the utterly misandrist feminists they despise.

I've had MGTOWers tell me my wife was just another diseased American Woman Whore that WILL take me to divorce court.

It is to that particular mindset that I address when I speak of "MGTOW" forsaking any relationships with women.

Tanstaafl said...

the pitfalls our BraveNewWorldOrder has created to entrap us all in our deliberately distorted and contorted understanding of the gender roles and how they affect our lives

Perhaps the answers are embedded somewhere in all the acronyms, but what I'd like to know is who you think is doing this, how they are doing it, and why.

Sociopathic Revelation said...

"But I have encountered quite a few MGTOW guys who seem to almost revel in pure, unadulterated misogyny...and that the worst thing a man can do is get married, because ALL women are the same. Some of these guys don't even realize it, but they become the mirror image of the utterly misandrist feminists they despise."

Perhaps. But you have to remember those men as being no better is a rather tricky posit. I realize there exist men that would take away women's right to vote or similar things, but it comes to financial and social servitude, feminists have got real misogynists beat, hands down.

Theirs is institutionalized.

I myself certainly don't hate women, but it's even easier now days for the accusation of misogynist to come rolling off people's lips. I've been dubbed as one simply because I've criticized feminism---that's often enough for someone to dismiss me entirely. By doing so, they miss the messages, and the philosophy behind them is crucial.

What this does, of course, is shut off any meaningful discourse and let's face it---men's voices have been zipped up for many years for the most part---unless you are a liberal politician, a woman firster, metrosexual, or mangina.

And looking around at an anti-male cultural and seeing what an undercurrent of a matriarchal strain can do, men are gradually waking up. And with that will be resentment. It's difficult to hear some of it because it's been buried too long. But by shaming men as "bitter" because it exists---and for more legit reasons then some might think---does not do anyone any good. That expression needs outlets for growth and change, and when that doesn't happen, sometimes it gets warped.

As I've stated in my own blog, I certainly don't approve of what Sodini did and he's no hero, but I honestly think if he had discovered MGTOW and PUA years earlier, he would have never killed those women and himself. He would have been a changed man.

He would have had choices---and that's what makes a really powerful difference in a man's life.

I've been writing lately about how our culture views men that are not successful with women as losers of some sort. What I do think MGTOW does is help validate themselves and their masculinity without the need for that affection 24/7, and if men decide to engage with women or not is up to them, ultimately.

And let's face it---there are an awful amount of women out there that reinforce the idea that men are creeps and nobodies even if they have standards and just don't screw anything that moves. And if are aggressive with women, you're dubbed a player even if you haven't slept with a hundred barflies.

Sadly, this is a nasty mentality that many carry even in their 30s and 40s; the other day I was lurking on a "romance" forum and was watching a woman gleefully call anyone who didn't share her dating optimism as bitter. She seemed to even take a perverse joy in it, and her comments were all directed towards men.

Like Zenpriest, I realize that it's not the best way for men to be alone forever, but as a self-preservation tactic I understand it. Hell, I've even surprised a couple of MGTOWers when I said I still seek out friends with benefits now and again---that I shouldn't have anything to do with US women at all. I understand the sentiment, but I personally feel a bit of my humanity has been shelved. But, on the other hand, I also acknowledge when there are men that have been burnt so badly they opt out of the game, period.

For those want to still be with women, there are foreign and minority women and alternate routes. I claim no expertise on FWs, but for those who want marriage and family and have success, more power to them and best wishes.

Tanstaafl said...

For those want to still be with women, there are foreign and minority women and alternate routes.

Seems to me these alternate routes, or the Soldini route, are exactly "the pitfalls our BraveNewWorldOrder has created to entrap us all". Why else would these curiously malicious mystery people have "deliberately distorted and contorted understanding of the gender roles and how they affect our lives"? Cui bono? Certainly not the "empowered" wymyn who years later, their eggs dry, realize they've been duped down a dead end and wish they had formed a family to nuture and grow old with.

Does anyone in the PUAsphere ever discuss the ethnic roots of the differences between the first wave feminists, who advocated social and moral equality, and the second wave feminists, who have inverted and/or destroyed sexual norms, seeking and attaining feminine supremacy?

I think it's akin to the ethnic roots of the differences between the classic liberalism, which valued free association and free speech above all else, and today's neo-liberalism, which dictates forced integration (obliterating free association) and legislates anything outside PC lines as "hate" (obliterating free speech). The West's White Christian supremacy has been inverted and replaced with non-Christian "people of color" supremacy.

If you're willing to settle for an alien bride or play games to get in a feminist's pants then surely ignoring the ethnic angle is the route to go. Heck, the BraveNewWorldOrder has made going the homosexual or Soldini route more attractive than wondering aloud about ethnic motivations. I don't suppose a PUA would wonder why this is, being content to navigate the sex game, oblivious to the games on other levels.

If instead you explore beyond the gonadal, trying to identify and understand the route-makers, then you'll consider at some point how ethnic competition manifests, and not just in sexuality but also the many other symptoms of corruption and decay we can see around us when we're not busy rutting.