Friday, February 28, 2014

No Leaf Clover

Post-Economic Collapse, Argentina 2001

"And it comes be that the soothing light at the end of your just a freight train coming your way."

I've seen a lot of naysayers and offhand critiques deriding the MAndrosphere for "fantasizing about the collapse" or calling it "Doomsday Porn." Many folks have made statements claiming they can't wait for it to all come crashing down, so the rebuilding can begin.

It seems we have a dichotomy of generalized opinion on a potential economic collapse of Western society going on...those who can't wait because they are confident in their abilities to survive societal upheaval, versus those who believe it can never happen, or that it might happen, but even if it did, there is nothing we can do, so live and let live, whatever may come, will. I don't adhere to either viewpoint....since I'm a conspiracy-theory realist and cynic, I already know the collapse is coming, it is deliberately engineered, and it will be accomplished to achieve an abominable and inhumane agenda - total population control.

This viewpoint is considered crazy, delusional and paranoid. I'm fine with that.

Just call me Cassandra.

My only answer is to say open up your eyes and LOOK.

How can you not see that our current society is unsustainable? We are a society that is perpetually taking on new debt to simply service the debt we already have.

$15,064,816,000,000- The U.S. GDP in 2011. The debt as of Jan 1st, 2012 is 15,170,600,000,000. United States now owes more money than its yearly production (GDP).

We cannot keep up this charade in perpetuity. The bill always come due, and perpetual debt-spending by a Government to keep the lights on eventually results in bankruptcy and the lights getting cut off.

Thanks to immersing myself in the Shit-Hits-The-Fan-Prepper-Sphere, I discovered a slew of first hand accounts of what an economic collapse in a modern country looks like - Argentina in 2001.

In 2001, I was a daily reader of both national and local newspapers and periodicals, as well as a daily watcher of Tell-A-Vision "news." I don't recall any reporting whatsoever about Argentina's economic collapse and subsequent descent to third-world, hellhole conditions. Of course, we had other world changing events that dominated the headlines back then...

Anyhow, looking at what happened in a formerly prosperous, "first world" society, the parallels we are seeing in the rest of the "first world" to the events leading up to the Argentinian collapse of 2001 are foreboding.

You think it can't happen here? Think again.

 One man's account describes it like this:

“How can I prepare for an economic collapse?” is one of the most common questions I get. It usually takes me a second to start to explain how complex such a question is. It’s like asking an auto mechanic, “Say, how do you build a car?” or asking a computer engineer, “What’s all that stuff inside my laptop?”

I do have some first-hand experience in this matter, though. The economy in my country, Argentina, has gone through various crises, but none as large as when the economy collapsed in 2001 after a decade of apparent prosperity. The currency devaluated, and Argentina defaulted on its USD$132 billion debt, the largest default ever. The middle class took to the streets after bank accounts were frozen, and the president was forced to resign, escaping the presidential building in a helicopter.

That's all it takes to get the catastrophe ball rolling.

The Government simply declares a default, the banks freeze all accounts, and the basic necessities of living that everyone has become dependent on acquiring from our Just-In-Time distribution Supermarket and Big Chain Retail suddenly start doubling and tripling prices as panic hoarding kicks in and the shelves are emptied in a matter of hours.

In my lifetime, I've seen the store shelves here in Hawaii get emptied several times...two hurricanes, a pending tsunami and an earthquake all kicked off a frenzy of grocery hoarding and mile long lines at gas stations. In all of those instances, order was restored and "normalcy" of our current corporatist consumer-driven society resumed in a matter of days.

But when (not IF, but WHEN, as a default is coming. It is inescapable. Maybe tomorrow, maybe 10 years from now...but make no mistake, it's coming,) USA Inc. defaults, the dollar crashes, the bank accounts of the masses get frozen and the grocery and hardware stores get emptied, the "return to normalcy" is not happening.

It's going to be much worse in the US than what happened in Argentina.

For the Argentinians, the freezing of bank accounts instantaneously cast the entire middle class into poverty.

In the USA Inc., this will be terrible...but we also have a large poverty class living a virtual, debt-driven "middle class" consumption lifestyle, financed by the entitlement-dependency programs of the Federal Government. We are at a new record of dependence here: New record: 15 percent of Americans on food stamps

When the bank accounts get frozen, and at the same time all the EBT cards that are now feeding 15% of the nation no longer work, The Shit is Going to Hit the Fan and it will be the End of the World as We Know It.

Are you prepared for this? No? It's still not too late...

Take the advice of people who have been there and done that.

Here's a condensed version of some excerpts  taken from the SHTFplan blog:

Step #1: Acquiring precious metals (I generally recommend 20% of your savings but each person is a separate case) and a month’s worth of expenses in cash, kept safe at home.
Every single Argentine wishes he could go back in time, close his bank account, and put that money into gold. We would all do that if we had a time machine. Since you can’t guess the future, all you can do is estimate what can happen and play the odds in your favor. In the event of a full economic collapse, if you have 20% of your savings in physical gold and silver, that’s a percentage of your savings that is spared. It’s not an investment; don’t go crazy over gold and silver going up or down a few dollars, just be content that it’s not getting any lighter as it sits in your safe. If the economy collapses or even if there’s simply inflation (as there clearly will be), that percentage of your savings in precious metals is safe and will likely go up in price beyond its standard purchasing power as things get worse.

During the first stages of a severe economic crisis, you will see ATMs running out of money fast, and many stores won’t be accepting credit cards. {and EBT-SNAP cards too.}

As the saying goes, “Cash is king” during those times. Your precious metal can be sold to a dealer, but you better keep that stored for now. When everyone is running around looking for an ATM with a few bucks in it, having a month’s worth of expenses in cash means you won’t be one of them. Why not more than a month´s worth of expenses? Because if the economy fully collapses, that paper money will lose its value within hours. It may drop 50%, 60%, or 75%, as happened in Argentina. Who knows? All you know is that as the currency loses value, the value of the precious metals you have stored goes up in proportion. Still, during those first days, a wad of cash gets you what you need.

Step #2: Stock up on food.
The more you have, the better. There may be periods of civil unrest like the ones we saw where stores are being looted and closed after that. There may be problems with resupply because of logistical complications. It’s better if you already have 6 to 12 months worth of food in your expanded pantry. Also, keep in mind the food you buy now will be considerably cheaper compared to post-inflation prices.

Step #3: Acquire the essentials by putting together a survival/emergency kit.
This will include your typical camping gear: a tent, sleeping bags, a stove (have enough fuel for it in case services are disrupted), first aid kit, medicines, LED flashlights and several spare batteries. Depending on how bad civil unrest gets, there may be problems with the infrastructure. After the economy collapsed in Argentina, the power company simply couldn’t afford the repairs needed, and it hadn’t planned for something like this, either. Rolling blackouts became common, and having LED lights and rechargeable batteries was a blessing. You could easily spend two or three days without power during summer. {Worse for North Americans...power outtages during Winter could be fatal rather than simply uncomfortable in the southern hemisphere's summer heat.}

Step #4: Improve your personal and home security.
During the first days after the economy collapsed, civil unrest, rioting and looting was out of control. A state of siege and military law was declared, enforcing curfew hours after 10 pm. This lasted a few months, and for months after that, while order was recovered in the capitol district, there were still occasional revolts and looting. The sense of lawlessness extended way beyond the visible accounts depicted by the TV and general media.

It’s during times like these that you realize you must have means of defending yourself and your family. My advice is to make your home as secure as possible against criminals that may take advantage of the lack of control during the worst of the rioting. After that, a better security plan for the entire family must be worked out. As things get worse, you understand that you can no longer afford to be lax about your personal and home security. Those that are quickly become vicitims. With a more secure home, you may want to consider having a weapon to defend yourself. Certainly not an easy decision, and one you must be extremely serious about. If you have the self-control and maturity to handle one, having a firearm and getting the minimum training to know how to use (it if it ever comes to that) is something you should consider doing.

Crime and insecurity will be one of the greatest threats people all across USA will suffer, and very few will be ready for it. It won’t happen one dark gloomy night after watching the latest horror movie. It will happen in the Walmart parking lot at 3 pm, with plenty of people around (people who will hurry out of the way, pretending not to see anything). You’ll be thinking about what you just bought, that you maybe should have bought Lucky Charms instead of Corn Flakes. That’s when the nice-looking person with two other buddies, all well-dressed (with neat hair cuts, too), pulls a gun on you. Developing a sense of awareness will be the most important part, as well as making the rest of your family comprehend that times have changed and you can no longer be careless regarding security.

Step #5: Embrace a different mindset.
When Argentina went through its economic collapse, people handled it differently. Maybe the most common response was denial. The “I can’t believe this is happening “ attitude was pretty popular. Others complained, but you soon understood it changed nothing: It only made you feel more miserable, more stressed, and that was something you could do without. Others just ended their misery. Suicide rates doubled after the collapse, with people sometimes jumping under the train at early rush hour in a desperate attempt to make their misery noticed by others.

What you need to do is become more positive, more active. Be someone who, while accepting those things you can’t change, does something about the things you can. Get involved now, do what I just recommended right now, it will bring you peace of mind. Remember to stay positive and put every problem into perspective. Complain less. You’ll have enough to complain about when inflation gets worse. Soon you’ll understand that material things can be replaced, and you become more grateful for what you have instead of worrying about what you don’t.

It’s essential to keep a positive attitude. Being someone that gets easily depressed will be the end of you as the economy worsens. Problems much worse that what you are used to will be a daily occurrence. You’ll just have to roll with it and learn to cope with the new world you live in. Reinforce your relationships with people. Fight stress by finding a hobby you enjoy, hopefully one that has a practical side as well. After the collapse, lots of people started their own businesses when they realized there were no jobs to be found. It would be better if you get started now, just in case you ever need it in order to earn a living.

These are my recommendations. I know many people could have used such advice back when our economy collapsed. - Fernando “FerFAL” Aguirre at

 There are some fundamental differences between the state of the USA Inc. and Argentina in 2000-2001, just prior to their economic collapse.

We probably have the most heavily armed populace the world has ever seen. When the SHTF, it's going to be a total warzone once fighting over the basics of survival commences. I have family members who are staunchly "anti-gun" and are utterly opposed to anyone owning guns. They always vote for gun control politicians, and always challenge and question my beliefs and ownership of numerous weapons.

Yet they have food storage and are preparing for possible societal catastrophe (not because they believe as I do, but rather due to past experiences with hurricane preparedness). When I tell them they are just creating storehouses for the looters with guns to come and take it from them when the SHTF, they act like they don't even hear what I'm saying. It's cognitive dissonance at it's worst. Don't let your political ideology get in the way of your preparedness. You think the cops are minutes away from saving you NOW, imagine what it will be like when the cops are in the midst of society wide rioting and unrest?

There will be no one coming to save you.

Ask the Korean C-Store owners in L.A. in 1992 about that.

I also believe the huge segments of our populace that are dependent on Federal Government entitlements to get their daily food are also the sort of people who will in a matter of hours begin looting, rioting, robbery and other such predations on people who may have food stores and other material consumables when the banks freeze, the EBT cards stop working, and the store shelves are emptied.

They already have an entitlement mindset, as well as a healthy sense of envy and covetousness of those in the upper economic classes....and in America, they are already well armed, or one household burglary away from getting heavily armed.

Don't be sheep waiting for the ravening wolves to come to devour you and your family when the time comes and law and order disappears in moments.

Get armed, get trained, and be ready. The financial apocalypse of the greatest economy the world has ever seen is inevitable, and most likely destined to happen within our lifetimes - and probably sooner rather than later.


Anonymous said...

Do you think the collapse will hit Europe just as hard? The Euro is also heavily in debt and tied to the dollar.

AverageMarriedDad said...

I have a very similar post sitting in my draft folder, it's called "Prepping to be a Prepper" or something like that. I agree with everything you said, and have been starting to acquire food stockpiles (those that can last 5-years to indefinitely - store properly in mylar bags with oxygen absorbers), water (only 6 gallons thus far, but will be purchasing a 55 gallon food-grade plastic container soon), TP (as Danny 504 says, that in itself will be a tradeable commodity), cash-on-hand and other incidentals. I haven't yet pulled a trigger on a fire-arm (a money situation as well as wife philosophical battle with guns and kids), but probably will later this year. I have easy access to one on short notice though, with both my brothers (within a few miles of me) gun nuts, along with in-laws and other family with excess guns that would be willing to help a brother out if need be. I have tradeable commodities such as a large stockpile of homebrewed wine (100+ bottles currently, more always being made), extra propane on hand for cooking, camping supplies (since we camp every year) and so forth.

It's a scary place to be when you look out on the horizon, and I agree, something is rotten in USA. I struggle with saving for tomorrow while building for the collapse (which I hope never happens). In a northern climate, after the winter we've had, it's especially concerning. At least I don't have my head in the sand. My wife may shake her head, scoff and let me do my thing in prepping for prepping, but if the SHTF she'll be thankful.

Anonymous said...

The US government response could be more vigorous than a weak state's. Are we really sure that precious metals won't be seized? Registered guns certainly would be. Probably won't help that much anyway, since along with looting there would be arson

Keoni Galt said...

@ Anon - Yes, it certainly can. Look no further than Greece...all it takes is EU imposed "austerity measures" in any EU member state, and the proles begin rioting in the streets.

AMD - "A money situation as well as wife philosophical battle with guns and kids"

This is the situation with a lot of guys I know...they want to get a firearm, but the wife/girlfriend disagrees.

I always advise them to tell the woman this: "If things ever get bad, who's job will it be to confront the bad guys? That's right, mine, not yours. Why would you want me at a severe disadvantage in trying to protect you and our children? It's NOT YOUR CALL."

Then buy the gun and make that the definitive, final word on the topic.

In my experience, the woman gets upset at first...but after some time, they soon forget all about it even being in the house.

Keoni Galt said...

Anon - You may very well be correct that the US Gov may come to seize the registered weaponry and/or metal....but in terms of the guns, you can at least protect you and yours before the Gov comes to disarm everyone. When breakdown of civil society occurs, the first 24 hours are the most dangerous in terms of looting, robbery and random violence.

Anonymous said...

Gold could be seized, as it was back in 1930's by FDR (it wasn't really seized but bought at $21 and then a few months later reset at $35), but there are two major differences between then and now.

1). Back then, the dollar was actually still backed by gold - even said so on the dollar bill.

2). Back then, most of the population actually held physical gold, whereas today, only something like 2% of the population holds physical gold. Seizing physical gold likely wouldn't help the gubbment much, since everyone owns paper gold - which has been leased out at fractional reserve rates reported anywhere from 60 to 1 to 90 to 1. (This is how gold has been manipulated - they can print paper gold like money to suppress the price by flooding the market, but physical is disappearing fast to Asia).

Btw, in a SHTF event, you want SILVER, not gold.

Gold is for transferring your wealth into the future. You bury the shit and after things have settled and a new safe, currency has been established, somewhere, you transfer your gold into that currency (or you buy real-estate or other hard assets with it when the time is right).

Silver is what you SPEND during the SHTF. Who walks into the gas station with an ounce of gold worth $1,300 (today, $5-10,000+ during a collapse)? No, you SPEND your silver, and hoard your gold. During a SHTF event, an ounce of silver might go to $200 or so, and that is what you keep in your pocket to buy groceries and necessities. Anyone carting around ounces of gold in their pocket is simply asking to be killed.

Gold saves your wealth for the long term, silver saves your life in the short term by helping you buy the necessities when no-one trusts paper money.

Btw, in a SHTF event, you are better off to buy "junk silver" than things like mint-produced silver. You won't get full value for an ounce of minted silver unless you bring it to a dealer. But, in places like Argentina at the black market, "junk silver" gets the same price at with a vendor as minted silver (like Canadian Maple Leafs).

You can buy junk silver in bulk - it is things like the silver coins that we used to use to mint our dimes with back in the 50's and 60's. You can still buy bags of them, and this is what is best to trade with in the black market.

- Edwin Calais

Anonymous said...

A way out of the city should help as well. The inner city welfare class should basically cannibalize themselves metaphorically, possibly literally.

Within a month, it should be safe to return.

Edwin Calais said...

That last anon wasn't me, btw - but he is right, it takes about a month for things to settle and for a black market to arise and start delivering goods to the people. That's what happened in Argentina, anyway.

I don't actually think a full blown collapse will happen all at once - it is going to be a long, drawn out process.

Think about this - countries like Canada pretty much "escaped" the banking crisis in '08 and '09. That should make you think Canadian currency is "safer" than American currency, right? I mean, after all, the Americans printed off trillions of dollars to save their asses, while Canada didn't - well, not to the extent America did. And we came out "better off" than America... you would think.

But this is not the case. Since America is Canada's #1 trading partner, consuming something like 70% of our goods, we couldn't afford for our currency to remain stable while the US currency experienced massive decline, so our government devalued our dollar at the same pace (or greater) than the Americans did, in order to save our export economy. If the Canadian dollar would have risen to $1.50 against the US dollar, Canadian exports would plummet and our economy would be shot through the heart. So, even though we didn't have a banking disaster like the US did, we are still suffering the same inflation and what-not that the USA is - because if we don't devalue our dollar along with the USA, the Americans simply won't buy our goods as they reach un-affordable levels.

The entire world is in this situation, since the US dollar is the world's reserve currency. Everyone trades in US dollars for oil, wheat, coal, or whatever other hard assets. This is causing all the other nations of the world to devalue their dollars along with the USA, in order to remain competitive and keep their trade economies viable.

This obviously can't go on forever, since the USA is, without a doubt, BROKE! The numbers don't lie.

The Chinese are hoarding gold in such massive amounts, there can be little doubt that they are intending, at some time in the future, to try and make the Yuan the world's reserve currency instead of the US dollar. The world desperately needs this too! If the USA is being irresponsible with their dollars, we should trade in something else. Of all the countries in the world, it looks very much like China is the one who is hell-bent on creating a new currency to replace the USA for global trading.

One day, the Chinese will simply announce they are backing their currency in gold, and whammo, the world will start buying and selling commodities in Yuan rather than dollars.

This is already happening, as Russia, China, India, and many other countries are already exploring doing trade in alternative currencies rather than the US dollar.

On the day that a new gold-backed currency is announced, and it becomes accepted as the new "trading currency," Americans might as well expect a 50% or higher decline in the purchasing power of the dollar. That will BEGIN the decline... maybe by 40-50% purchasing power in one year, and over the next years, it will get worse.

Countries like Canada, SHOULD reject the US dollar. As should the EU, the BRICS the PIIGS and everyone else. Why should a country like Canada force itself into poverty simply because America is? We might be friends, but if you want to quit your job and move into a cardboard box in the alley, don't expect me to join you.

It's like everything in business... we'd like to keep doing business with you, but since you are now bankrupt, we need to find new customers to help us pay our own bills.

Then the S will HTF, but I think it will be relatively slow - over the period of a few years, as countries around the world reject the US dollar and start doing business in other currencies.

The initial blow will be devastating, no doubt, but it will get worse as time goes on as everyone abandons America for their own best interests.

Anonymous said...

The original FerFAL blog post - a must-read:

vultureofcritique said...

I suppose everyone here has already heard about John Robb's various websites:

The big point Robb has been repeating for a decade is that when SHTF, you don't want to be an isolated survivalist. You want to have a social network of at least 50 people to watch your back, trade water for your canned beans, sew up your ripped camo trousers, etc.

paulmurray said...

"We cannot keep up this charade in perpetuity."

Of course we can! The debt is owed to the people that print the money, and they can print as much of it as they like. It's not like gold, which is in limited supply. All they have to do - and what they in fact do do - is print some more and lend it to the government to pay down the interest on the existing debt.

What could go wrong?

Leonidas said...

"Get some powdered food, plant some zucchini, get a windmill...Right? And that's all well and good, but if you don't know how to fight, all you're doing is gathering supplies for the toughest guy on the block"

Anonymous said...

"total population control..."

Could not agree with you more HL. However, despite being a conspiracy critic/skeptic myself, I honestly keep coming back to the thought that the USA's (I.e. Western civilization's) impending economic doom is being deliberately manufactured.

The debt we've accumulated, the massive power grab by the executive branch and its departmental agency tentacles coupled with a legislative brach that has all but abdicated its authority as well as a judiciary ready to spin whatever sophist yarn it can to justify the executive encroachment, indicate as much.

This current govt. has unabashedly and aggressively torn at the flesh of individualism/republicanism to the point of evisceration. This debt tidal wave is simply that government's stop gap measure. Even if all of the other actions fail (militarization of domestic agencies, IRS enforcement of healthcare, NSA spying, etc) the debt will wash the slate clean.

Once the debt wave hits our shore; the banks will be nationalized, the airports/ports closed indefinitely and the streets brought under martial law. Why? Because we will need chaos amongst such disorder. And who better to fill that void of order than an all-knowing, all-caring and omnipotent federal govt.? Watch how fast the same EBT cardholders, wic recipients et al. prostrate themselves before such benevolence.

The end America. ...(That is of course, unless you've read up on history and heard about a group of colonists who just didn't believe that BS anymore. )

Anonymous said...

Edit Correction: we will need order amongst such chaos and disorder.

Velvet said...

I am not a proponent of holding precious metals - they'll be worthless for a good long while following even a micro false-flag type thing. It's hard to make change for a $50 silver coin - what's it worth - one loaf of bread? Two? Assigning value to shiny stuff is always dangerous.

Making oneself useful via an indispensable skill (medical, mechanical, ag, etc) and the ability to protect oneself are what most people are lacking, and what will determine who eats and who doesn't. Food stores, goods and services should come first and all but last. You can trade those for gold when the time comes - you will probably be able to charge a premium, actually. But you still can't eat it.

Keoni Galt said...

@ Edwin - The entire world is in this situation, since the US dollar is the world's reserve currency. Everyone trades in US dollars for oil, wheat, coal, or whatever other hard assets. This is causing all the other nations of the world to devalue their dollars along with the USA, in order to remain competitive and keep their trade economies viable.

I guess this makes the NWO singular Global cashless currency scenario all the more likely...when the Banksters crash the dollar, the rest of the world's economy is going to go with it. Then THEY will introduce a new "stable" currency.

Looks like things are going along exactly as planned...if we are to believe the NWO conspiracy is true. :-s

@ Velvet - The point FerFAL makes is that gold and silver hold their value over time. Yes, you can't eat the precious metals...but imagine how many people have savings of cash like $50,000, or $100,000 in the bank, in CD's, mutual funds, stocks etc.

When the currency crashes/hyperinflates, all of those savings are simply GONE. Wiped out in a manner of hours, if not minutes.

If/when a new currency is introduced, the precious metals will still retain a relatively stable value of savings.

I mean, every person should have all the guns, groceries, skills and supplies they can manage to accumulate now....but what about the long term savings and retirement plans all stored in the form of monetary instruments based on the $US? Gold and Silver have been the traditional holders of long term value throughout the entire history of "money."

There are two strategies for surviving an economic collapse - short term and long term. Prepping with food, arms etc. is required for the short term survival of the immediate chaos...but the precious metals is for the long term financial picture.

Nestorius said...

If you really have read Atlas Shrugged which was written for Philippe de Rothschild then you will see that all these economic collapse scenarios are engineered. John Todd an insider talked about that clearly during the 1970s.

Velvet said...

.but what about the long term savings and retirement plans all stored in the form of monetary instruments based on the $US? Gold and Silver have been the traditional holders of long term value throughout the entire history of "money."

I am questioning why we keep returning to a framework that keeps crashing. Gold, apparently, cannot prevent it, as it keeps happening over and over, for as long as we have assigned it value. It's a metal in the ground like any other - it backs goods as a matter of convenience. Easier to carry than a plow or a wine cask, an I beam or a server.

But ultimately it is fiat - we claim gold backs the currency, so buy gold....but the question should be "what backs the gold?". We have to rethink our assignments of value. Overvaluing gold is traditional for traditionalism's sake, which is only sentimental, not actually traditional. Our faith also demands reason - if the goods aren't there, and we live in a circular paper fantasy, how is that any more sustainable than how we live now? It is a prescription for volatility and inflation.

I have heard arguments of "gold is the money of the Bible!", "gold is the traditional standard", etc., but I don't find those meritorious. God also points out, fairly frequently, that beating ones head against the wall because it feels better when you stop is a retarded philosophy.

Keoni Galt said...

@ Nestorius - nope, never read Atlas Shrugged...but yeah, I agree. The 1% Banksters have always manipulated the markets to achieve their own agenda.

@ Velvet - The point is that Gold holds it's long term value, because it is the one metal ALL the fiat currency Central Banks the world over treat as a real asset.

They are hoarding it themselves...the folks with the power print their fiat currency "out of thin air." If they can "make money" out of nothing, why would they bother hoarding gold?

Because gold & silver are the two precious metals recognized throughout all of human history as valuable.

This will never change.

we claim gold backs the currency, so buy gold....but the question should be "what backs the gold?"

Nobody claims their currency is backed by gold anymore. That's the point. It has intrinsic value due to it's universally recognized value, it's inherent rarity (making it inflation resistant), and the fact that it's highly malleable and cannot be counterfieted so easily.

If someone has 100,000 in US$ savings, they can't invest it ALL into ammo and food storage. Well they could....but what about if/when their skills are no longer able to bring them future resources due to injury/health/old age?

There is life after a collapse, as the Argentinian prepper's story relates. Eventually the short term chaos and shortages settle down into a new normal.

And in that new normal, whatever new currency is introduced, gold will still be valuable in that new currency....because all those Banksters that control the currencies value it.

Athor Pel said...

"Velvet said...
I am questioning why we keep returning to a framework that keeps crashing. Gold, apparently, cannot prevent it, as it keeps happening over and over, for as long as we have assigned it value.
if the goods aren't there, and we live in a circular paper fantasy, how is that any more sustainable than how we live now? It is a prescription for volatility and inflation.
March 2, 2014 at 6:51 PM

I'm gonna give you some slack because it's obvious you're coming at this new.

Here's the thing, manipulation of the currency has happened for as long as there has been currency, that's solid specie as well as asset backed paper. As long as mankind is greedy manipulation of the currency will happen.

So sharing the blame for the boom/bust cycle with gold, an inanimate object, isn't backed up by historical evidence. Mankind did it, is doing it and will continue to do it.

But here's the other thing, gold or silver money is still tangible, is finite by definition and therefore much more difficult to manipulate and, here's the important bit, much more difficult to hide the manipulation.

When you get manipulated coins you can easily tell based on several physical indicators. You then take that into account when using them. The banks/states stealing through currency manipulation can only go so far in that case. The manipulation will not go undetected, in contrast to the average person's perception of our modern financial system, and then the market will push back and therefore limit the damage a bank/state can do.

The volatility you mention is a product of the banking/financial systems we've used historically. The guys that design and run the systems use the boom/bust cycle to help them steal more. It's a feature for them, not a bug. They induce it by making it intrinsic in the design of the system and their ongoing decisions, they do this on purpose through the control of interest rates. This is not the same thing as currency manipulation.

Eric said...

Our culture is rotted from the inside out, and when the collapse comes it will look more like the fall of Rome. Americans are so dumbed-down, doped-up, and full of their own hubris they can't even see we're on the edge of that kind of collapse. Russia and China could knock us out with one blow.

Edwin Calais said...

O/T, sort of.

Hey, HL, Here’s an interesting article I found at AH’s about online infiltration & manipulation. Have you read it yet?

Keoni Galt said...

Oh yes Edwin....I actually have that link saved in a draft post right now, along with another related post.

IMO, far too many people don't really take the threat of cognitive infiltrator's seriously, and give far too much benefit of the doubt to too many folks that look like shills to me.

CarpeOro said...

@Velvet: You post many of the points and questions I hear for why gold?

A gold back currency has never been the cause of a collapse for one thing. It has always been debasement of the currency (far easier to hide with fiat) and debt that has caused crashes.
Why is gold the "gold standard" because it has been valued for jewelry and the fact that it is nearly impossible to destroy. Your building catches on fire guess what happens to the paper? Gone. Gold? Worst case, melted but all there. It doesn't bond well with other elements so it doesn't tarnish like silver (oxidation).
You hold gold because in 1800 you could be a fine suit of clothes for it. In 2014, the same is true. As the pile of fiat money increases in size to buy something of value, the pile of gold remains the same.

Jace said...

You guys need to lighten up a bit. A collapse would be amusing, but life will go on.

seth datta said...

In ancient times before Christ, the Pharisees (lawmakers) of the time had invented debt-based currency and a code of laws for all to follow. Christ was the first real competition they had and the first real political revolutionary. So this ‘Synagogue of Satan’ killed him. In time, they had poisoned all religions, including Christianity, with truth mixed in with lies. They could not hide Christ’s existence, so they sought to sully his teachings, and deceive others’.

By the 330AD, Constantinople was founded, alongside ‘Roman Catholicism’, which became a proxy for a new re-imagined Roman Empire. This new Christianity had false teachings mixed in with truth. The capitol was moved from Rome to its new site, with a further 1/3 move left to put the capitol where it was really wanted by the ‘elite’ of that time. In Jerusalem. But all roads lead to Rome, and the Roman empire collapsed as the trade routes to Constantinople were not favourable.

Over the next century and a bit, many wars were fought in the subverted Christianity’s name. The Muslim religion was founded by the elite as an antidote to Christianity.

By the late 1700s, the House of Rothschilds had beaten Napoleon and gained control of all of Britain through financial manipulation. They established a mighty empire, with the Satanic aim of re-establishing the third temple at Jerusalem, where Constantine had failed. They financed both sides of all wars and continue to do this in the present day, having staged the Ukraine anti-government ‘revolution’.

The UK is the financial power. The Vatican is the political seat, where the last Pope (Petrus Romanus = Peter of the Roman/US empire) is bringing in ecumenical teachings, into the Church, which arguably goes against Christianity. Lastly, the US is the military arm, and has been used in the last few decades to establish dictatorships in various nations, with the excuse being given to the general public that ‘a world police’ is needed.

We are now in the end-game. We all know the bankers are the hidden hand that controls society, for none of the big names were prosecuted following the financial crisis. We can see/feel something is wrong. Kissinger had recently suggested that ‘Israel will cease to exist in 10 years’. The Iraelis are actually Edomites from the Caucausus, and are being used to establish the third temple from which the fabled Antichrist will rule. The real Israelites are spread all over the world, with only a handful in Israel. In any case, we will see scripture be fulfilled at some point in the next few decades, but the cost in terms of human suffering will be immense. People of all races and creeds will suffer and fight, at the beckoning of the Satanists, who see themselves as the true rulers of the human race and as benevolent people.

Truth is hard to find in the modern era, but this researched account is as close to the truth as we will get.