tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4256367009985298221.post6057185028739276081..comments2024-03-23T13:16:37.006-07:00Comments on Hawaiian libertarian: Opportunity Costs Are About Much More Than Simply $$$Keoni Galthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00842553742723239151noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4256367009985298221.post-7129317841639217982011-11-05T10:03:48.452-07:002011-11-05T10:03:48.452-07:00Wow! My first thoughts on reading this article was...Wow! My first thoughts on reading this article was that it hit the nail on the head with what I've been thinking lately. I get soooo angry with these arrogant women who assume that they superhumanly have the ability to be it all and do it all in terms of achieving all that the essential roles of masculinity and femininity provide, thus negating or diminishing the need for the opposite sex to contribute (in her case the man). And Keoni so excellently demonstrates it to be a lie, and whilst I agree she has an excessive reliance on materialism, I can't help thinking her arrogance and pride in "achieving it all" as a (super) human and woman shows a deep need for self reliance and belief this makes a better more competant person. How sad this is, when the truth what makes us strongest as people is knowing when we really NEED other people to complete us, contrary to the ideal of women making it "on their own". We all have limitations as humans and so as he says no one can "have it all", but isn't this why the sexes and indeed human beings need each other, one can make up for the lack in the other, when one person tries to do it all, there will always be a lack they can't fill. <br /><br />What is the point of giving birth to a baby if you are not prepared to bond with them properly as a parent, and leave the real parenting to a nanny? It is possible to have career success and a family as a woman, personally as an artistic woman I am inspired by mums who nurture their family and manage their creative business from home. But if she is the nurturer this role must ALWAYS be first, and invariably that will limit to a varying extent her career role. The father in general can work without these limitations, but will spend less time with the kids as a result. But I disagree that fathers cannot work long hours and still be good fathers, in general children do not need the physical presence of their fathers as much as mothers, but value the different parenting style of the father just as much, even though it may involve him spending less time with them. (As a christian the bible shows me the father's role as parent as just as important by being the head, the main protector of the family, a head disciplinian among many other things).<br /><br />What INFURIATED me recently was when I read on the BBC web site of a study in the UK mainly I think, where I live, that studied mothers at work giving counselling to their distressed child on the phone, and mothers who comfort in person at home and concluded that both approaches are just as beneficial to the child. It never said how they gathered the data and drew these conclusions but to me it just stank of a study designed to appease mothers who spend too much time at work, reassuring them that they don't need to feel guilty, mothering on the phone is just as good! Of course there are cases where a stressed mother at home may not give a sympathetic response and a mother at work may be in a calm mood and a better listener, but in general isn't it obvious that children will benefit more from having their mum physically there to comfort than talking to her on the phone esp at what may be a stressed workplace? What angered me most is the effect this will have on children, there are already reports in the UK at least that children's mental health is suffering more, these sort of studies will only serve to justify more neglect from mothers, I pray that God changes the hearts of these women.Brigidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16748988062202763790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4256367009985298221.post-31842446748557924642011-08-31T18:57:50.821-07:002011-08-31T18:57:50.821-07:00(to continue)--it is not necessarily good for a ch...(to continue)--it is not necessarily good for a child to be raised by a father while the mother becomes the provider. Mothers are tailor made for their children, and have a nurturing ability built in to them (which can sometimes be sabataged by an unhealthy indoctrination of feminism) that provides everything a child needs to develop essentials that help him or her have a balanced life. Mothers were created to look after their own children, and while fathers have a huge impact on their chilren, it is the mother that will provide the details of the child care.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4256367009985298221.post-53249950648729085912011-08-31T18:52:29.084-07:002011-08-31T18:52:29.084-07:00Just because "it works for me" does not ...Just because "it works for me" does not mean it is good for a child. Men are naturally geared toward working and being providers. A small percentage of men will be unable to work or be providers, due to disabilities, but I am speaking men who can work and will not. Women are physically geared to child care. Between the ages of 18 and 35, it is important to increase a certain kind of exercise such as "load-bearing" to prevent deterioration of bones (this can be verified in many health studies), and this is the exact age when most women would be carrying their babies or lifting their children, bending to look after a small child, and moving about in a way similar to exercise. When women let others do the child care and they go to work in another capacity, they skip all the necessary work that really makes them healthier. When a man becomes a house husband, he misses out on the opportunity to be a good provider and increase a sense of satisfaction in his manliness.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4256367009985298221.post-16406799011241660942011-08-19T12:20:08.269-07:002011-08-19T12:20:08.269-07:00"Do be careful with your assumptions folks. I..."Do be careful with your assumptions folks. I am a career mother and I do not regret my choice, my daughters father stays home with her and is secure enough in his manliness to not feel uncomfortable with that role. I see no reason for anyone to assert that the working parent by default should always be the father. And, no, I would not assert, as the commenter under discussion did, that I "have it all", but I believe that I have the best possible life that I could create and have given my daughter the best opportunities and examples available. In short, while not "all" it's still a whole hell of a lot!"<br /><br />I see what you are saying but what you don't grasp is this. You are simply the exception which proves the rule. If the swapping of these roles works for you that's wonderful, but women tend to feel resentful when they are the main breadwinners. <br /><br />Bluntly, just because it works for your one case doesn't negate the the large amount of information which suggests you are the minority. I know of a 55 year old woman who can eat what she wants, drinks like a fiend, smokes like a stack and never works out but she has a body of a 25 year old.<br /><br />No joke, I have mistaken for a much younger woman on two different occasions approaching her from behind.<br /><br /> Does that mean we all can follow that same pattern and we will have such amazing results? You and I both know this isn't true. These generalizations and assumptions may be just that, but they exist for a reason. Most men feel emasculated to stay at home there are a large amount of women who feel resentful as the main breadwinner.Omnipitronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11279015740057059832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4256367009985298221.post-27769634186046501482011-08-15T18:10:29.906-07:002011-08-15T18:10:29.906-07:00Do be careful with your assumptions folks. I am a ...Do be careful with your assumptions folks. I am a career mother and I do not regret my choice, my daughters father stays home with her and is secure enough in his manliness to not feel uncomfortable with that role. I see no reason for anyone to assert that the working parent by default should always be the father. And, no, I would not assert, as the commenter under discussion did, that I "have it all", but I believe that I have the best possible life that I could create and have given my daughter the best opportunities and examples available. In short, while not "all" it's still a whole hell of a lot!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4256367009985298221.post-68061773536744652222011-07-23T23:50:18.205-07:002011-07-23T23:50:18.205-07:00Most "career women" couldn't tell yo...Most "career women" couldn't tell you their children's favorite colours if their children were standing right beside them and yelling, "I don't like green, Mommy, I like purple!"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4256367009985298221.post-2771288184840062011-07-20T11:01:16.907-07:002011-07-20T11:01:16.907-07:00Sending the children to school is the same as havi...Sending the children to school is the same as having a nanny, because in essence, other people are indoctrinating your children.<br /><br />The men will have to restore the culture of home life by rewarding women with marriage, only if they are the right kind: the homey, stay at home, cooking, teaching their own children, dedicated to marriage types of women. <br /><br />If women in general know that the only way to get guys to marry is to have those homey and feminine virtues, more women will go to cooking school and more women will want to learn to sew, to show off their domestic accomplishments and attract the kind of guy that appreciates them.<br /><br />But it will be the men who will change things, by insisting that no woman is good enough unless they will only marry women who are feminine, non-competitive with men, and who will be dependent rather than independent.Lydiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15530969871397361970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4256367009985298221.post-59171778537934432112011-07-19T17:17:46.982-07:002011-07-19T17:17:46.982-07:00Thought this is relevant and cool:
G.K. Chesterto...Thought this is relevant and cool:<br /><br />G.K. Chesterton On Motherhood<br /> <br />“To be Queen Elizabeth within a definite area, deciding sales, banquets, labours, and holidays; to be Whitely within a certain area, providing toys, boots, cakes and books; to be Aristotle within a certain area, teaching morals, manners, theology, and hygiene; I can imagine how this can exhaust the mind, but I cannot imagine how it could narrow it. How can it be a large career to tell other people about the Rule of Three, and a small career to tell one’s own children about the universe? How can it be broad to be the same thing to everyone and narrow to be everything to someone? No, a woman’s function is laborious, but because it is gigantic, not because it is minute.” <br /><br />-G.K. ChestertonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4256367009985298221.post-4665878978176184682011-07-17T18:21:55.389-07:002011-07-17T18:21:55.389-07:00She looks at her family as a possession, so indeed...She looks at her family as a possession, so indeed she "has it all". She doesnt have the bonding with her kids, but she doesnt value the bond, because, in her mind, bonds are chains.<br /><br />So she´s the female version of the vilified absent father whos too busy with his own life to love his family.Yohamihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12627262670568039248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4256367009985298221.post-67713726625646690242011-07-17T10:18:46.967-07:002011-07-17T10:18:46.967-07:00Keoni,
You are one of the few people that will un...Keoni,<br /><br />You are one of the few people that will understand this. Yes, it is 3.5 hours, but it explains much.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXt1cayx0hs" rel="nofollow"> The Money Masters</a>CSPBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11094365754030966778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4256367009985298221.post-83732879286421743942011-07-16T19:22:16.330-07:002011-07-16T19:22:16.330-07:00I think it's great if you can make it work wit...<i>I think it's great if you can make it work with one full-time stay at home parent. In this day & age, few can really do it.</i><br /><br />Oh please. The typical liberal claim that "we are progressing" and "it's inevitable" didn't work for me and many, many of my friends.<br /><br />I'm a millenial, my husband works and I'm a stay-at home (occasionally part-time working) mother and we live just fine. Many of our friends do the same. Couldn't be happier.<br /><br />Sure most women worked throughout history. They did women's work!<br /><br />Also about liberal and libertarian chicks not having children? That's GREAT! Less liberal and libertarian genes being replicated and passed on to future generations.Catarinanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4256367009985298221.post-64498091244786192632011-07-15T15:02:56.925-07:002011-07-15T15:02:56.925-07:00"Modern Womyn don't want to RAISE childre..."Modern Womyn don't want to RAISE children -- they simply want to HAVE babies and get their "motherhood" jones taken care of." <br /><br />Amen. You can't be a full-time parent and a full-time worker at the same time. You have to at least make one or the other part time or possibly eliminate it altogether. <br /><br />Modern women want to REPRODUCE, not parent. This is another corollary of the feminist fallacy that men and women should play completely interchangeable and identical roles in society because the traditionally masculine role is always better for women than the traditionally feminine one. <br /><br />I know a lot of married MEN who say, "Hell, my kids are the only reason I go to work at all. If I ever won the lottery, I'd stay home and be with them all day." Working to support a family is difficult and tiresome, especially since so many of today's jobs crush and degrade either body or soul in one way or another. That's not to say that most men wouldn't still rather work than stay home. For women, though, to assume that whatever men traditionally did that they didn't do is better for them just because men did it is childish and irrational. <br /><br />I realize that there are some women who would rather work than parent and who would have no regrets about outsourcing their child-rearing duties to a nanny or allowing their husbands to stay home. The problem is, though, that almost all women who grow up today, including those who would be happiest as solely wives and mothers, believe that they, too, are like this. These misled mothers are the ones who end up with alienated children, divorced or emasculated husbands, and deep loneliness and despair, usually without ever understanding why.Elliotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05223240054191423108noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4256367009985298221.post-36590991534538662802011-07-15T13:53:47.091-07:002011-07-15T13:53:47.091-07:00Very well said, sir.
You strike at the very heart...Very well said, sir.<br /><br />You strike at the very heart of the problem: materialism. It is the default world view of most Americans, and why there is great confusion when people are so unhappy despite the fact that but any standard every American is wealthier than 95% of everyone else in the world today, and 99.99% of everyone in history.<br /><br />The problem, of course, is that material things don't make you happy - any serious thought about the matter will lead to that conclusion. So, once you realize that, you have to determine what will make you happy, and this leads to red pill stuff and a general rejection of most of the values of feminism.<br /><br />Excellent post, once again.Dan in Phillyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13574977723796957609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4256367009985298221.post-4771091149897200712011-07-15T13:00:09.410-07:002011-07-15T13:00:09.410-07:00In our family, my wife worked swing shift part-tim...In our family, my wife worked swing shift part-time when the kids were little and then full time when they were older (with every other weekend). We used a small amount of supplemental day care to cover the occasional overlap, but otherwise there was always at least one of us home. It worked well. The kids are grown, well adjusted, happy & healthy adults. You do what you've got to do. <br /><br />I think it's great if you can make it work with one full-time stay at home parent. In this day & age, few can really do it.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15206895589045598802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4256367009985298221.post-87069258804174169732011-07-14T20:35:22.265-07:002011-07-14T20:35:22.265-07:00One problem we have in this culture of glorifying ...One problem we have in this culture of glorifying Single Mothers and Working Mothers, is that so many Modern Womyn are simply mentally and psychologically unfit to BE mothers -- hell, the vast majority of them are unfit to be WIVES!<br />Witness the change in their thinking and attitudes when they start approaching thirty and start having baby rabies -- and suddenly want the "Good Men" (aka, 'suckers') that they had nothing but contempt and derision for previously.<br />Modern Womyn don't want to RAISE children -- they simply want to HAVE babies and get their "motherhood" jones taken care of. But after the child gets through infancy, they become an impediment and an obstacle to the Modern Mother's almighty and all-important "fulfillment".<br /><br />"...If it wasn't for parties and alcohol, none of us would be here. I don't care what day you were born on, you were started on a Friday or a Saturday night."<br /> -- David BrennerPing Jockeynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4256367009985298221.post-74481529232491531032011-07-14T18:26:23.061-07:002011-07-14T18:26:23.061-07:00"You seem to be completely focused on mothers..."You seem to be completely focused on mothers and have forgotten the fathers?"<br /><br />As I said in the other thread, the man has NO choice in the matter. He MUST work and sacrifice family time whether he likes it or not. Only the woman gets the choice, and only the woman gets to delude herself that she's great at both work and child-raising.<br /><br />"men should also consider parenting more and working less"<br /><br />No they shouldn't, because that's a good way to have your woman lose respect for you and dump your ass.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4256367009985298221.post-51096142367424489182011-07-14T17:34:23.059-07:002011-07-14T17:34:23.059-07:00In the mid 1980s a couple of my acquaintance, care...In the mid 1980s a couple of my acquaintance, career people. He worked in high tech, she in publishing. They had a nanny, full time. Though the nanny did not live in their home, she was close and was there as much as 12 to 14 hours per day, including some weekends. The nanny was a native of central America.<br /><br />The couple invited me to dinner one evening. The nanny had the night off. As we all sat around the living room enjoying cocktails before dinner, the mother was trying to get the child, then about 6 or 7 years old, to go to bed without much success. Finally, in exasperation, she tells the child in no uncertain terms to get his ass upstairs into bed. The child responds with an angry and defiant, "No! I don't take orders from no woman!"<br /><br />It's all about culture. It was at this moment that they both realized that by outsourcing child raising to a woman, and essentially her family, from a third world culture that it was the nanny's native culture that the child was learning and not the upscale western european and US culture that they intended. They were mortified!<br /><br />The nanny was dismissed shortly thereafter and she became a stay at home mom with the unenviable task of de-programming her child of his first 6 years of latin american lower class values and biases. -- I left the workforce in 2001 and a few months later the geographic area in 2000. At that time the effort was still in progress. The ultimate outcome was far from certain.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4256367009985298221.post-34143938476597872042011-07-14T17:31:56.454-07:002011-07-14T17:31:56.454-07:00"While it is precious and special that men ar..."While it is precious and special that men are sooo very concerned about the "opportunity costs" that career moms pay, men should also focus on the "opportunity costs" that career dads pay."<br /><br />How much different is it from a man divorcing an employed woman period? He may pay less money, but he get's screwed just the same. I see your point Andrew, but this is a different issue at the moment. When raising children, it's better the mother stay home, that is if one is brave enough to even marry in this day and age.Omnipitronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11279015740057059832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4256367009985298221.post-11129731145087060802011-07-14T10:18:37.484-07:002011-07-14T10:18:37.484-07:00Do we really want women to be stay-at-home moms? ...Do we really want women to be stay-at-home moms? Let me tell you want happens when a man gets divorced from a woman who is a stay-at-home mom. The man will lose custody of his children and will be told by some family court when he will be allowed to "visit" with his children. The man will probably only see his children a few days a month, if that. The man will also be forced to pay his ex-wife big bucks in alimony and child support. I ask again, do we really want women to be stay-at-home moms? <br /><br />While it is precious and special that men are sooo very concerned about the "opportunity costs" that career moms pay, men should also focus on the "opportunity costs" that career dads pay.Andrewnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4256367009985298221.post-30900656171816018402011-07-13T16:40:27.030-07:002011-07-13T16:40:27.030-07:00"The "man-o-sphere" constantly harp..."The "man-o-sphere" constantly harp on how fathers are important in the lives of kids, but there's barely any mention the above drawbacks of being career dads, although I know for sure that quality time with and the presence of fathers are important."<br /><br />When would they do that pray tell? Earning a living isn't cheap, you must know this by now. Which career are you asking about Renee? Do you mean 60-80 hour work weeks, is that the sort of issue in terms of time that you refer?<br /><br />Yes men are important, that goes without saying, but the main thing you forget is that most men realize that spending time with their kids is important, but you know what's important too....eating...having a roof over your head.<br /><br />Just like Keoni had suggested, you can't have it all, men know this and have always realized this. <br /><br />Great post Keoni, your post shook the hamsters of both Kimberly and jz. They tried to get you to bow to their hamsters and your logic never faltered. Good for you my man.Omnipitronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11279015740057059832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4256367009985298221.post-14259492115358114232011-07-13T16:10:59.504-07:002011-07-13T16:10:59.504-07:00Well shit!
In that case I'll just skip marria...Well shit!<br /><br />In that case I'll just skip marriage altogether, have my child with a surrogate mother who needs the money and hire a nanny to care for him/her.<br /><br />And in my copious free time I'll (at least try to) get my sexual needs met with a nice skank or two who no one else will marry either.<br /><br />If it really is that simple then maybe *I'm* the one who can have it all, ha!Craig R. Meyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08604166829303176012noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4256367009985298221.post-30358325401366113732011-07-13T14:32:08.143-07:002011-07-13T14:32:08.143-07:00If you're arguing for "traditional" ...<i>If you're arguing for "traditional" men-work-women-stay-home lifestyles, fine.</i><br /><br />I'm not arguing "FOR" anything here other than recognition of the truth regarding opportunity costs. I'm not saying women should or shouldn't work...only that when a person makes a choice on what to do with their life and how they structure their family, they need to be truthful about the opportunity costs, whatever choice they make.<br /><br />NO one can "have it all." But that doesn't stop career womynz like jz from claiming they do. My point is not to prove jz wrong...but to get OTHER people that read this to think about what "Having it all" really means.Keoni Galtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4256367009985298221.post-55803486749433080272011-07-13T14:15:47.816-07:002011-07-13T14:15:47.816-07:00If you're arguing for "traditional" ...If you're arguing for "traditional" men-work-women-stay-home lifestyles, fine. But I should point out that such arrangements aren't really traditional. In most cultures throughout history, women worked as much as men (excepting privileged upper class people). It has almost always been necessary for both spouses to work to make it in life. What has changed since the industrial revolution is that most work takes place outside of the home - or some other environment where children could be present (and even involved in the work - a great opportunity to teach). Modern families face a lot of difficult trade offs in raising their families. I don't necessarily disagree with your central point. But women such as your target aren't the only ones involved in this - men have to make the same choices.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15206895589045598802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4256367009985298221.post-92057897414326228942011-07-13T13:59:15.607-07:002011-07-13T13:59:15.607-07:00I agree - women can't have it all, men can'...I agree - women can't have it all, men can't have it all.<br /><br />If you choose to become super successful in your career you can't always be there for your kids.<br /><br />Maybe if you built a very successful company in your 20s, and phased into a part-time advisory role upon parenthood (while still earning big profits), you could claim to have it all. Or perhaps reached the pinnacle of success as an athlete in your 20s and then became a full-time parent. In any case, these situations are exceedingly rare.<br /><br />And yes, men should also consider parenting more and working less.dejournoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4256367009985298221.post-69679165200126558522011-07-13T12:23:21.170-07:002011-07-13T12:23:21.170-07:00The point some of you keep missing when trying to ...The point some of you keep missing when trying to focus on "what about the father's" is that most Fathers who work all the time to support their family do not claim to "HAVE IT ALL" and are 'Super Career Man AND Dedicated Father.' Most career Men understand that by working to support the family, they are sacrificing the time spent with the kids to pay for their food, clothing and housing. They don't claim to be doing both the provider and nurturer to the children...which is the B.S. that career women such as j.z. loudly proclaim as proof that they are a superior "modern" woman who HAS IT ALL.Keoni Galtnoreply@blogger.com